Pop 209 | How To Start A Testing Practice With Dr. Jeremy Sharp

[0:00] You know that i love new tools and things to make your practice better i recently found a partnership with the government institute and if you head over to checkup.mean.com they have this tool way you can send couples through,
there are two hour assessment where they go through and you get is great data you can choose to pay for the check ups or the couple can pay the twenty nine ninety nine,
it is a great way to level up your practice again that’s checkup.mean.com and you don’t have to even be a gotten certified therapist use it.

[0:32] Music.

[0:55] Welcome to the practice the practice podcast in joe sanok your host and hear the beautiful use an actual building in downtown traverse city life is good the sun is out.
And will see if the snow melts I hope you are doing awesome in your world in the your practice is getting full of your ideal clients with your ideal life.
I’m so excited about slow down school were selling more tickets so if your interested head on over to slowdownschool.com where we’re gonna be talking about giving you your ideal clients,
to build your ideal life,
and if you jump on phone for fifteen minutes you can go there and we will chat about whether it’s a fit for you and it’s not i will totally tell you what else may be of it or give you some kind of advice i’m just what to do.
Today on the practice with dr jeremy sharp and he has a testing psychology practice.
And actually for a long time i thought i was gonna be testing psychologist my dad did testing psychology he was a school the cal.
And for years that’s really all i knew about psychology more than just what i decide tv.
And i did and going that direction dr jeremy sharp has launched the testing psychologist podcast and some other just amazing things.
And i’m so excited to have him on the practice of the practice podcast so without any further ado the one the only the never replicated dr jeremy shark.
What day of the practice of the practice podcast you have dr jeremy sharpies a licensed psychologist clinical director.

[2:26] The colorado center for assessment income,
private practice he founded in two thousand nine and has five other clinicians he got his masters degree in his phd in counseling psychology from colorado state university,
and these days journey specializes in psychological in nature of psychological evaluations with kids and adolescents he’s also the host of the testing psychologist podcast,
and provides Private Practice Consulting for psychologists and other mental professionals that want to start our grow testing services in their practice,
lives in fort collins which is an awesome and beautiful town with his wife and two young kids jeremy welcome to the practice of the practice podcast.
No thank you good morning reacted morning to you too i guess tickle in my throat from i take a green smoothie ground of all this like flaxseed and chia seed and stuff and.
Set the coffee you know that’s what that’s coming from.
Okay no has been no judgement sound legit what to start with you lunch this practice back in two thousand nine,
tell us a little bit about the launch what went well what you learned from that and then maybe we can diving to specifically around adding testing to clinical practice.

[3:34] Sure sounds great yeah it’s interesting always tell people that i sort of got into private practice more out of necessity than anything else so.
I do not have the plan to go into private practice when i came out of my posts stopped.
Back in two thousand nine but the family wise i knew that i wanted to be here in fort collins my wife is here she’s also a therapist since you as well.
Well situated at the university so we knew we wanted to stay here,
i looked around for for jobs i applied probably la jobs as maybe a little over qualified for and there just aren’t any pc jobs here in fort collins so,
that’s why sales con started it out of necessity cuz i just bought a,
i don’t really have anything else going on let me jump into it and you know were fortunate enough to be able to do that at that time,
something out if there’s not a job creator job sounds like exactly.
Now i mean is this worked out i ended up doing a little bit of contract work a day or two weeks to the university and help supplement but yeah just jumped right into it and then started building from the ground up.
So from the beginning of the act testing practice in a way yeah,
i would say that so that was more of a traditional therapy practice now i can a joke and call it like my former life when i was doing there because i don’t do there be more but i always had evaluations as part of the practice will do.
Hello one two three evaluations a month probably for the first year or two before i really switched over and focused on testing specifically.

[5:13] Yeah those are the practice so when did you decide you’re gonna focus and a little bit more on the testing.

[5:19] Yeah there’s so the it was really think external circumstances that push me in that direction so always done a lot of testing owns fortune of to go to grad program that was really heavy on testing so i got.
You know nice grounding and did a lot of testing based system shifting grad school equipment or a psychologist and that kind of thing but some.
Yeah i think it was spring of two thousand twelve so our first could’ve just been born.
How is one to spend more time with him and be home a little bit more serbian you know in the chair so to speak for thirty or whatever hours a week.
And our local university.
Changed their policy for prescribing adhd medication and they started to require that all college students who wanted adhd medication get a full evaluation before they would prescribe and,
i have some connections at the university you not going to school there colorado state so.
When that happened i found myself all the sudden with i think fifteen to twenty.

[6:35] I need to do something here and figure this out because of the great opportunity yeah absolutely.
Well in so it just shows how when your connected in the community and you can have your pulse on what’s happening in it opens new opportunities for you.

[6:51] Yeah absolutely that was a big part of starting practice in general staying connected here in the community and getting in touch with folks and.
Relationships to yeah so then you sir to add some more testing to what are some of the first things that.
People wanna get into it people are just starting one but for you.
What were those steps with you just can’t ordering the right test and because you had that background was your you know exactly what to do or did you have to do some research to fit,
what is working the best practices for cat he testing for the other aspects of the top.

[7:24] Yeah it’s a little bit of a combination like a second grad school think with a pretty solid grounding in testing and the battery that was needed the situation i found myself and was that up to that point i had been.

[7:39] You know owned a couple of the measures but i was also borrowing from,
a friend am i in.

[7:57] Yesterday and he had to make that happen pretty quickly so that was more that sound when someone’s picking up materials but.
Did you know the credit card down and then get them cuz yeah.
How much is it like if your feeling of practice with the materials i was the have to have the background and license and all that but it what is it cost for you to upgrade your practice to have all those materials.

[8:23] Yeah it depends lot on the contest in your to do for me doing you what i’ll call pretty full battery are full of valuations which includes.
Much to say to be able to learning disorders adhd autism spectrum personality so you know a lot of those big components i mean it was.
Around seven thousand of thing to buy everything.
Yeah no is that changing with there being more on-line test we don’t have to buy like a packet of thirty year does it’s still kind of sat where would you start the bike and about pack it up and then we for people to come.

[9:01] Yeah little bit of a combination with a lot of the cognitive testing so if you’re doing intelligence or in an academic battery,
your autism spectrum those are really big kits that you just have to have those or you know they run,
i don’t know thousand fifteen hundred maybe even be close to two thousand a piece and you just have to have those now,
behavior check list and my personality measures like say the in pie or the mall on something like that you can buy those come on carter in packs of five,
so
Not quite as expensive but the other if you just kind of basic measures that you really have to have on hand so what are those measures and Linda,
what people experience if they got the appropriate training to be able to do that so like autism what are the.
Gold standard for autism testing sure well that’s great question to their i have to say i’m either always gonna be variations and,
the car battery people would use but,
my personal battery right now for autism is we do an intelligence test so i use the wesley family most of the time of us are some need to do something different so that’s the whisk five is the newest one on,
if there is any question about academic ability to use the why it which is a big academic battery but on specific for autism the,
i think what is larger than consider the gold standard is there a dots on it and it second,
revision at this point but i think it’s as close as we can get really qualifying social interaction and social skills so to set of structure and interactions and exercises where.

[10:40] Just give you a chance to observe facial expressions body language reciprocal conversation.
What are the behavior of the way to get plays things like that to try to give you good idea of those core autism spectrum symptoms,
the authors of cup backed away from that gold standard term a little bit to think over the past couple years and they have really emphasized,
okay you have to integrate a loss results with a good interview like the eighty ir is a popular one,
and the behavior check list so i use the social communication questionnaire in the social response of this.
Survey for scale yeah that’s ever helpful for people that may be interested in this actually is hella here’s the nuts and bolts tests the,
and that’s right now maybe because of him gold standard anymore but to say the things he shouldnt,
consider if you wanna offer autism testing,
know what about ADHD that was kind of pulled you into doing more tests,
what are some of the canon printer tasks that should be in a battery for adhd.

[11:43] Yeah well so you this is a big can of worms at be honest,
it’s funny i was just talking with i’m interviewing for adults nurse psychologist position and was talking with one of the candidates the other day and she is doing some research on what actually makes a good adult adhd battery and,
so again i think it depends.
Who is having who’s asking for the referral back in the university they really wanted a comprehensive battery i would say that some of it was may be.
Over testing to a degree and you run into that sometimes with different referral sources.
We generally speaking an iq test is important so for adults you know what would be the way so i use the ways also.
Book good interview or really important component is getting an academic history and doing collateral interviews with parents especially for trying to diagnose adhd in adults.

[12:40] I’m so getting in a simple childhood behavior.
Check lives there a lot of check this out there for adult adhd or,
united states and kids on for kids i use the basque is a big one,
i’m also connors three is pretty big and most people do just the behavior.
Checklist or something checklist like the barclays cables war the snap four or the vanderbilt or something like that so we can you know after because adhd is that this point still behavioral,
diagnosis so yeah i have a certain symptoms will have a real clear idea of the cognitive profile don’t think the researches agreed on that yet sure i think the opportunity for people listening even if they are licensed to do testing or,
they have maybe a group practice or they’re not interested in testing is to somehow integrate other contractors that can do that within your practice no for me.
Did steve green men.
It’s really,
dr mailing fitzgerald who she during custody evaluations and i imagine overtime she’s gonna want to do more than that.

[14:02] Imagine there’s some like it maryland who just during my practice and you i’m leaving this practice what advice would you have for me as the practice on a person doesn’t.
Want to do testing but has someone that is licensed to do testing it is doing custody evaluations is gone to the best practices with that.
Maybe she wants to expand her testing what should i do as the business owner what should she do as the contract,
stir how can we grow her side of testing.

[14:30] Oh yeah that’s a great question i think there are a couple of things on one is leveraging any connections that you might have in the community just as the.
Director the practice you be willing to come to take her along and introduce her to folks and help her build her connections in the community as well i think that’s a really big part of,
growing testing practice just like any practice but um i think with testing you know people come and no,
what fair he is and testing is pretty vague found for a lot of therapists and practitioners so it being willing to introduce her to folks and give her a chance to really.
Particularly what she does and what testing can do and where the value is think that’s pretty important.
Yeah brother and to radio program i’m every other week and hearing her talk about the importance of child centered custody evaluations it just,
media always not just this report is actually helping kids and co parent have can a better outcome in their divorce.

[15:33] Yeah absolutely that’s a huge value what so the other day i go no go ahead.
Yeah there’s only one other thing with that is it will something of running to,
just talking with colleagues who do testing but are not the directors there for,
yes maybe some issues with the director,
not being willing to provide the right set up for testing in the practice so that could be,
not having a dedicated office space that really set up for testing or not being willing to purchase the materials that,
but you know that that i need to do the testing so on the flip side of that i guess the,
the advice would be you know trust her and make sure that you know any people who are doing testing have the right setup in the right space to do that just so it’s flowing smoothly in you not going as well as it can,
what gym you make me feel really good about my decisions cuz he is one officer was set up to the plate there be off the,
but really we didn’t have enough people to warrant having it be just added you to play that even tho its cool and you know what happened but,
why,
but really that from a play therapy spaced more about testing and therapeutic spaces so couch that you can you can traditional therapy.
There is a big decision and you we have to talk about that and even just as the business owner yet you know you can,
those decisions and it’s going out now i cant do play therapy and office anymore it was there’s a new what’s to and so talking about.

[17:10] The bottom line of how much money come into that office over the last six months and talking through some other options and i think that.
Yeah i’m glad the really talked about making sure that you have a space for that person to be successful.

[17:23] Absolutely yeah its funny eminem write the metal that right now just brought on another testing psychologists that were,
raining offices and buying furniture and,
no matter what they are bleeding the interview on a talk about that of adding people to your pack,
just for yourself to do other things cuz i think that’s been awesome shifter been able to see over the last few months with you and having a thriving practice where,
he had removing yourself from as much of the testing as you can.
The before it to that i want to talk about someone that’s listening that’s maybe three annual okay so they are fresh out of grad school bear license to do testing.
You consult with a lot of people i’m starting a testing practice share with us the things that a speed up the progress that you’ve learned from may be.
Taking way too long to get started or like what would you say to speed up the progress a lot of testing practice yeah yeah absolutely so.

[18:14] I think if anybody is coming out of grad school with the intention of having testing focus practice then that’s already a leg up,
well from where i was like i said i end up in cover reactive situation where of like you know at midnight like buying test measures one night so just having that intention is pretty important.

[18:35] And i think within,
i think like a lot of us a lot of consulting kind of book some really really focused on,
i knew it and doing what you’re good at and what you really enjoy doing so with testing i think that’s particularly important so.
Training is a big part of that making sure that you’re definitely not i’m trying to reach and practice outside your scope of expertise and just gonna have an honest conversation with yourself about,
what you’re the skill to do and what you will qualify to do in terms of testing now somebody say in michigan their qualify,
but they haven’t had training in adhd in kids.
What’s the first step to figuring out how to get some extra training other than National referrals or best places to get training’s from where do you go to the company like I wouldn’t even know where to start in regards to that.

[19:32] Yeah yeah I think it’s a combination to things I think the to be honest of the,
because component would be to seek out supervision from someone who is really skilled in that area so that would be maybe jumping on a you know pediatric,
you’re a cyclist served and you know seeing who’s out there homer asking around to grad school contacts in the people they might know,
and just be willing to pay for supervision a consultation all,
well they build the skills know that person have to be local or could it be someone outside your state.
Yeah i think it be someone outside your state it’s,
yeah as long as there might be some state regulations for in a distant may think you’re likely after your license your says ask me in state that the one.
Absolutely yeah yeah and then there are conferences and their training so i will say the i think focus training specifically on assessment is.
Pretty rare so would direct,
person to go to yeah like national conference for one of the euro site associations or maybe even like a school psych,
conference you know they do a fair amount of testing is well,
three hundred gems sharp should launch assessment training weekend or something,
that that’s on the.
Thing is it’s rare and there’s a need for it tho should be.

[21:04] Yeah right that’s true pain is looking for can a consultant or are you looking for,
yeah for supervision and looking into maybe the company might have some training or if there’s a national conferences.
So then after that after they decide on it they order their tests.
Will you found helpful in regards to getting people in the door so website social media contacts where should people spend their time where should they not spend their time.
Yeah yeah so my practice i don’t know if this is unique or not but i have done,
very little outside marketing or advertising we you know we all have site,
today profiles that specify that we do testing and i think that helps,
because people search and i can’t find us there but the biggest thing for me to be honest,
there been two things i get down the community has been huge on so whenever i get.
Referral for testing i follow up with his folks and always try to get coffee or lunch with them and,
just gonna talk more about that and about,
how it might be helpful for them to do a lot of reaching out to schools here in the area so just.

[22:13] Yesterday i was meeting with principal of a local school and we are just going back and forth about processing speed which is,
totally boring ninety nine point five percent of people who are just like totally going great so you know,
reaching out to schools and physicians in the community and other therapists on but i would say one of the biggest things and if you wanna call marketing is the report,
but we turn out.

[22:38] At the end of the assessment so we always generator written report and then that goes back to the referral source or to the family and,
the way you write a report and how you structure that and you know what people can take away from it i think is a great,
marketing tool quote unquote because it’s very,
concrete product to work i can’t echo that enough even though i don’t do testing looking at steve’s assessments for substance abuse,
that has been one of the best the best ways to just get out there he even talks to attorneys and said so what,
in
And we are just chatting that was actually what you know got me looking for a custody evaluator is that.
She was like if you were seven people to our south on grand rapids and we just want one that has these kind,
things in the custody evaluation and so we actually like work,
are we billing came up see what what’s your ideal custody evaluation how would it look.
Just two with meeting your needs of your clients and then it’s like when you work with that referral source on yeah this is what I want in it.
They’re more likely to that and want to refer to you because it says high quality report that and the thing is on marketing tool because in front of judges or invest in front of school administrators.
Yeah absolutely i can save enough.
Even think little things like having the email and it not just be like a g-mail account to have a quick at your website dot com just takes it from oh this isn’t just like at yahoo hits he’ll actual normal.

[24:10] But what is in those little things that make the branding and the beauty of the report i think and go a long way.
Yeah i think that’s very true that professionalism is huge for better for worse i think testing maybe falls more and what,
you might call the medical room and there’s may be more of an expectation of professionalism that goes along with that so yeah having a report on ice letterhead well laid out professional email address all that stuff goes a long way,
yeah so once people start doing that is it really just kinda rinse and repeat or are there more things that can help practice continue to grow.

[24:46] Yeah let me see let me think about that i don’t have a i have a reaction to that term rinse and,
no we don’t do that but got to thinking how the things very,
one thing that’s important to me is always a like new things and like new toys and so the way that I,
turn on channel that into testing is really staying up on the research in terms of what the appropriate measures are and are there ways that we can incorporate,
technology indoor testing in your little pieces like that just to stay fresh like what the latest articles,
yup making sure to stay up on kind of the new research i think is really important at home even if someone doesn’t have a testing practice that’s so important because,
but we just recently bought for mental illness causing his pulse oximeter is where you can tell them it’s pulse while they’re in the section and look at the percentage of.

[25:42] Just like oxygen in the blood and i found it to be really fascinating especially with,
co-parenting couples or with or ex couples or with.
Couples that are fighting of one and.
Really helpful to just say okay see your heart be tends to go up really fast and your heart beat,
stays neutrality you stop breathing you just take don’t take breaths your oxygen level goes down so when you guys are fighting.
You need to take some breaths and you need to walk away let your hearts hurt be,
go down a little bit and just that technology to actually know what’s going on,
i think makes the sessions as just a counselor more valuable than they would be if i just said you should take some deep breaths and then like why cuz you mad yo like you know the actual knowledge of a where it will living in a time that.
Biofeedback is so easy and cheap that to not incorporate some of that,
when you practice seems like you just missing out on having higher quality outcomes.

[26:43] Oh yeah totally agree with that yeah I love those little tools a couple of the therapist here have those then yeah anything to backup your inventions of data I mean that’s,
that’s great you’re a data guy I love that Jeremy,
i want to talk a little bit about than your practice is going well and you then started to pivots to doing more consulting your podcast things like that let’s talk about.
What got you thinking okay this is a thriving practice and doing great it’s better than i,
i thought it would now want to do more like.
Through can you realization that,
you want to do even more be i just have a successful practice what pushed you don’t wanna go beyond just doing counseling or doing testing.

[27:27] Yeah i think his personality wise i am someone who needs,
novelty and i’m always come looking for that new thing you know something to kinda jazz it up a little bit or switch things up or add something to get,
no word i think without continual challenge and so.

[27:50] So that was a big driver you know just kinda interest in doing something different in general but.

[27:57] I have done some teaching in the past i thought graduate level professional issues course where we just talk about private practice and building a practice and marketing and making a thing.
What is specific for testing but using the ball park for sure how love that kind of stuff love doing teaching.
And so that’s what got me headed down the path of maybe doing a podcast and expanding out.
So maybe you teaching some of the things to folks yeah so what did you have to do in your practice to free up that time to actually spend time on the speaker thing.
Yeah so that for me has been.
Has been a really big transition so letting go of the work that i’m doing is actually it’s been,
more challenging than i thought it would be from one of the big things is built this practice since the beginning and so turning that over to someone else and kinda saying okay here’s or.
How you do you do this now and no be a little bit more of a face in the community and just having that trust to let someone else can do it has been a challenge and something that i’m really.
Working thru.
Now every time that I’ve done that in my practice whether it was hiring a therapist or an admin person to answer the phone like any time I’ve let someone else take over some of the work it works out.
Beautifully as always i just have to remind myself like hey this is doable it’s gonna be great we’re gonna go and move forward and things will work out just fine yeah.

[29:29] So then you have this free time and then what quick tips do you have an okay i’ve can’t move some things off of my plate and revenues still coming in.
Do you have any habits that helped you can’t start the podcast stream bigger be on just the practice take us through okay i now giving myself this time now how do i move the needle forward even more.

[29:52] Yeah yeah for sure am i actually am i go back just to add a couple of things to,
slip in terms of freeing up time I think from a testing perspective just two quick things to consider one is that I Outsource folks who can write the clinical histories for me so I take the notes and then I’m pulley undergraduate students who are,
psychology majors and good writers and have them write the clinical history’s so they get experience in that takes you know an hour,
our health you know my time that you know that i can do other things the other piece,
is that i have people do the testing for me so you notes call attack model were in place i can attrition to administer a lot of the testing,
well.
So they would be the one that is like you’re going to click here you’re going to go through this in 20 minutes then you’re going to,
coming tell your done then it will do the next one like that that’s what they would do where is sue in the past would have been the one that walked people through that.

[30:55] Yeah i would say there some of that it’s admittedly a little more involved with some of the members were there,
pretty interactive and really either doing some quality administration but yeah that’s the general idea is i train them really well and it’s pretty standardized and they,
take the reins with a lot of administration and then it all of course the interpretation of your,
yeah summary and diagnosis and the cost i love that idea of using students that are in there under grad that are good writers to build your business i did that,
couple years ago I used to for my Consulting do SWOT analysis so strength weakness after threats.
And i had to all these different measures that really was looking into this local dade keywords and all these things,
and i trained a business student down at what school she at loyola in chicago.
And she is a good cook these things out in two or three hours i just had a flat fee for a,
then i was really did like the okay jose next evening and,
look made sure everything was okay how it should be analyze interpreted it seems that idea that this great business student is learning to write these twenty page reports to help people grow their practices so,
i think there’s a lot opportunity there when you start to think differently about manchester practice but when you’re gonna level up be on just your practice.

[32:13] Yeah absolutely that was then when it was time to start podcast starting a moving be on just the practice will what kinda habits do you have that helps you get the podcast going and how do you,
just get sucked into email instead it’s like okay I’m going to work on the podcast today instead,
get sucked in the email whatever other things you practice to suck you into.

[32:33] Yeah yeah I think that helped a lot is it I was just genuinely excited about the podcast so it was it was honestly not a whole lot of work 2 to jump into it but.
A couple of things really have one as i set aside a big block of time each week where i said i’m only working on the podcast this morning,
so we do you know for five hours at a time when weekly basis and just make sure that’s that was my task for that day,
i do not have any files on my desk and i didn’t have anything that would room,
remind me to like write reports or whatever,
and also had separate browser window that had all of my,
podcast serial zone is always attempted to move the fear off and email i like that i like that one,
just listening to donald miller’s podcast this morning on the way and he was talking productivity.
And if you sell your house at the beginning of the day your energy not like a hundred percent your brain is there and if you start doing email and all these other things how just like.
Drains your brain down and so if you do your best work in the morning to really set aside that time to do the thing that’s most important,
of lunch and not spend that the things that really you could you can a half way and that you know those big tasks try deals and you have the most energy.

[33:54] Yeah yeah absolutely so dr jimmy sharp if every single counselor in the world were listening right now what would you want to know.

[34:02] Every counselor was listening a.
Would let them know that testing is a valuable service and can be really helpful for counseling can really integrate well with.

[34:15] What’s their posts are doing and if it’s a counselor who is considering building a practice i would just say,
definitely consider adding someone who can you can do testing and your practice so that you can feel that mention serve as many people as possible.
That’s awesome so if you guys wanna checking out and just going to itunes and look up testing psychologist podcast jimmy people wanna connect with you what’s the best way for them to connect.

[34:40] Yeah so our website on my website the testingpsychologist.com is the place where you can check out all this info about testing and consulting.
Email address is Jeremy at the testing psychologist, heading over there he’s going to be continuing to build amazing resources to help you add testing to your practice,
or have your clinicians add testing to your practice jimmy think you so much for being on the practice of the practice podcast of course joe thanks for having yeah.

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[35:13] Thanks so much for letting me in three years into your brain that we have so many awesome blog post over practiceofthepractice.com check it out,
also had not checkup.mean.com to start using the got and check out it is an amazing tool for couples work these onions years in your brain have a good day.

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