PoP 228 | A Shift In Consciousness: A Resurgence In Plant-Based Healing Arts


Today, Paul Fugelsang discusses his experiences with Plant Medicine from the Amazon with Joe Sanok.

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In This Podcast


Ayahuasca is an entheogenic brew made out of Banisteriopsis caapi vine and other ingredients. The brew is used as a traditional spiritual medicine in ceremonies among the Indigenous peoples of the Amazon basin. Although illegal, it is becoming popular among the American community as well. Hear more about this as well as Paul’s ‘Being Seen’ project for practices interested in marketing themselves while supporting social justice.

Ayahuasca Ceremony

  • 5 hours
  • Nighttime
  • Silence & stillness initially
  • Then ‘Shaman’ (person directing ceremony) sings
  • Intense & scary
    • Given opportunity to delve into dark areas of your psyche
    • Come into contact with Spirit world

What Paul Experienced In His First Ceremony:

  • Sublime
  • Not scary
  • Separated from ego (unitive consciousness)

For Your First Time

Make sure it is with someone you trust. Enter into it cautiously! Do research online before the time.

For Substance Abuse Counselors

Ayahuasca can, in fact, assist with addiction.

Benefits Of Ayahuasca

  • Keeps you / puts you back into the centre of your experience, i.e.: after suffering, etc.
  • Acts as a teacher
  • Makes it easier to do simple things, i.e.: be present with family, be in nature, read, etc.
  • ‘Wakes you up’ from your ‘lull’

Other Natural Medicines

  • Psilocybin
  • Peyote
  • San Pedro

Falling Upward By Richard Rohr

‘Being Seen’ Project

    • Great way to market ones practice while supporting social justice
    • $100 for Open Path Therapists
    • $150 for non-Open Path Therapists
    • Satisfaction guarantee
    • Proceeds go to Open Path
    • Email Paul at paul@beingseen.org to stand a chance to win one year of ‘Being Seen’ for free!

Useful Links:

Meet Paul Fugelsang

Paul has worked in the mental health field since 1996 with a focus on projects committed to improving mental health services for lower income individuals and families. Before beginning his own private psychotherapy practice, he spent five years as counselor and supervisor at Esperanza, NY, a community-based agency designed to implement procedural reform throughout the juvenile justice system in New York City. Paul counts among his interests yoga, the study of plant medicine, and long baseball catches with his son in the park. A graduate of Naropa University’s Contemplative Psychotherapy program, Paul operates Open Path Psychotherapy Collective and maintains a private practice in Asheville, NC. www.paulfugelsang.com.

Meet Joe Sanok

Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.



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Podcast Transcription

Pop 228 | A Shift In Consciousness: A Resurgence In Plant-Based Healing Arts

[0:00] It’s hard to believe that i met jamie just around like six months ago and he has this awesome website company cut slap shot studio.
And they do custom amazing website design that they cater exactly what you need head on over to slapshotstudio.com/joe,
to get an awesome custom website.

[0:22] Music.

[0:29] This is the practice of the practice podcast with joe sam axe session number two hundred twenty eight.

[0:35] Music.

[0:46] Practice practice podcast where he show you how to start grow and scale private practice i’m joe sanok your host,
you’re the beautiful radio center to building in downtown traverse city.
I say it’s beautiful it’s getting more beautiful we are still in the construction zone the radius and a three building i’m looking at it right now it doesn’t have siding at it has big purple insulation she thing it says.
The road in front of us is a dirt road they have removed all the ash fall the putting in brick sidewalks it’s beautiful.
It’s going to be beautiful right now it’s a dirty nasty mass and when i’m in counseling sessions oftentimes we hear things drop and it the building shakes it is,
we have to use the back door and the sidewalk clothes in front of our building but it’s gonna be awesome when it’s done in like a month.

[1:39] So i just wanted to share with you that we had,
over three hundred people just under four hundred people they did the world changers challenge and that was last week it was amazing people that ran full tilt at their ideas,
the sketch out their ideas the sketched out there playing the created the revolutionary statement the created their revolutionary avatar.
It was insane to see we have so many awesome giveaways and i was so inspired by just how.
Excited people were about the massive progress they made i’m gonna be doing another challenge this fall.
And it’s gonna be to write an e-book in the month so in september,
we’re gonna be doing a month long challenge this to the world changers challenge thirty so thirty days,
alter september into writing an e-book together we’re gonna be kicking buy it you can sign up for that over a practiceofthepractice.com/challenge if you want to sign up for that,
as well throw july august september now they did use that platform wedding r ninja,
for this will change challenge i love it the engagement the connections i’m gonna be doing this whole series that’s called,
essentials for your practice and it’s gonna be just amazing so that’s practices central series and it has a special guests on that were gonna have it hon of lemon or weather nice in july,
aug and sept,
they’re all practices such as all about when you’re in that under hundred thousand dollar range when you wanna start a practice when you wanna grow.

[3:16] So we’re gonna just go through these things so you can see all of the list of weapon as a sign up for whichever times and dates you want.
Over a practiceofthepractice.com/practiceessentials that and that’s practiceofthepractice.com/practiceessentials,
and we’re gonna be offering each weapon are probably three times just so that we can have lots of different times that work for you,
lots of different times that you can learn these things as well you can sign up and watch the recordings at your leisure and so and really like doubling down on the web interesting because i feel like.
It was such a great way to connect with the people that are listening to go deeper with you and to offer really cool things to help you grow your practices.
Also this summer i don’t know exactly when but we’re gonna be launching the practice the practice magazine apis or episode it’s gonna be issued number two we have chris stroman on the cover,
chris has a part time private practice down in kalamazoo he’s one of my best friends and the entire,
magazine is all about starting a practice in so you can look for when that goes live billing for that’s gonna be practiceofthepractcie.com/magazine also to really cool stuff for working and i brought sam and full time,
she’s my age who was a virtual assistant in south africa but she is so much more than that her new title is chief marketing officer so she is doing.
All of the images all of the infographics the magazine making some beautiful e books that were gonna be giving away in the future she’s thirty five hours a week my first full time person.

[4:51] We know that i’m leaving my director of details and we’ve got alison pidgeon who’s doing all the consulting around insurance she’s doing around group practices,
so just some really cool stuff for doing here with as we build a team of practice the practice to help you start grow and scale your practices,
but today in the show i’m so excited to introduce you if you didn’t catch the episode that we did probably a year ago paul,
if you go staying i stumbled over his last day before it’s if you’ll like blue bugle and he corrected me on that when we’re free we’re all.
So paul is not all about him in the second of a kiwi,
for you to hear about his thoughts il why ask the psychedelic and illegal drug that he is going to share a little bit about with us today.

[5:41] Music.

[5:48] Today on the practice of the practice pod.

[5:51] If you’ll saying and i’m so excited have fall back on the show his work in mental health since nineteen ninety six in before begin his own private practice.
Five years is a counselor supervisor in new york at community based agency designed implement procedure all reform to the juvenile justice system in new york city.
All counts among many interests yoga the study of plant medicine and along the baseball catch with his son in the park a graduate of mirabella’s actually slot of the ac your university in the rope.
No brother no i didn’t sign a rope universities contemplative psycho therapy program and he also operates open have collective.
Is well he has the brand new being seen and used in asheville north carolina paul welcome to the tracks the practice podcast.
Thank you joseph to be aired on yeah yeah it’s always fun when i get to talk to people that i’ve met in person and i know that people may be heard this on the other podcast interview that you are in,
play you often vacation here in northern michigan we got have coffee was that last year two years ago almost two years ago saying.
Yeah seems like yesterday so paul you reach out to me and i can’t wait to hang out again in person.

[7:05] Yeah yeah i want to start with one little part of your bio there the you’re interested in plant medicine how did that start.

[7:15] Well.

[7:17] It might be more helpful to talk about plant medicine is your yahoo conservative that we all the same page medicine is commonly defined as is the use of signals.
Which are mind altering substances.
And there are some that are natural they grow in nature and there are others that person that i can sure mostly all where the varieties of them so the ones that say that it.
I use in my practice are all are all natural growing plant medicines assume we’re talking before we got going in this isn’t so the fact publicly.

[7:58] No no never never on here like this year it was a friends yeah so why now.

[8:06] What is the question i’m not sure i suppose i’m at a place right now where professionally and not worried about prospective clients finding out and not.
I think it was building my private practice as much more concerned with.
Service personal information that unless the most concerned something like this coming out and i don’t have any shame around it also feels like well.
You have my spiritual practice to do with going meditation retreats i have no shame sharing so why.
What will happen with this year and i think that is probably substance abuse counselors out there a quote and i hope that we can just.
Talk about how you got into this how this is become a part of your personal practice and then just i think just educate ourselves on it so.
So you are on the same page it is there anything else we need to know what kind of the field of plant medicine of how people and only get into that.
I’m sure there’s a ton.
Yeah there’s probably a ton and i want to say it’s from the start of a wine expert in this there are many experts and their many academic student studying doesn’t researches studying this for many years.
Play medicine also the therapeutic applications about medicine and i am not an expert in someone who.
Who practices it and it just learning about the next for.
Yeah i appreciate clarify that we should also clarify as you did before we got rolling that lots of this if not all of it is illegal and so if you have kids in the car and you listen to this podcast use your own judgment.

[9:43] Around where you listening to this for this episode of the super toast little bit about your personal story of plant medicine.

[9:52] Sure i look a lot of people experiment with psychedelic when i was in my late teens and twenties.
And then i tested it and the recreational format.
You know usually about going to see music or hang out friends are camping and they were always interesting experiences i think probably quite helpful.
But i don’t think they were quite as destructive as they couldn’t be.

[10:24] Ass moving into in the middle adulthood i am i got invited to go to and i lost the ceremony by a friend of mine.
Because they never used any something like this ceremony contacts and then once i started doing and it changed everything in a very different relationship with.
This medicine and the power that has.
So what should i ask a ceremonies like the only experience i have ever watch the tv show chelsea does and she did one but that’s about all i’ve.
Ever experienced what won’t someone see observe experience one to three i lost the ceremony.
Set your friend chelsea handler yeah yeah yeah netflix is that as well and that’s i think that’s you know.
It’s our annual how has their money that was in that was really interesting episode.

[11:25] So

[11:28] I guess after that there are many traditions across south america who was who practice alaska so i’m only and the comes from many different countries and depending on where you are what region of what country you’re in.
They’re gonna be different so i have to fill any extra i practice with this from one specific area in peru so that i can distract you and i’m for losing millions of the other ways okay.

[11:54] So sensor money to the last about five hours.
Thirty six hours is done at night time in the pitch black knights and participants are on.
Query about the size of the yoga mat where you said that during the ceremony and then rasta practice the two disciplines of silence and stillness.
So certainly and beginning of the ceremony there’s no there’s no talking and no singing either and then while the ceremony is going on and.
The sherman and some people use that name some people don’t but the person who’s directing the ceremony is singing the route.
And service creating can’t container for people because it’s to be very very intense and can get really really scary and the music house hold people i would say.
Can you say scary what can happen and what has happened to people or to you in the semis.

[13:00] Sure well depending on your belief system.

[13:04] We can look at the scary aspect and a couple different perspectives some might say that.

[13:12] Given the opportunity to go extremely dark hidden places in your psyche.
These are places that we have and that we all to the unconscious they spend a lot of energy trying to avoid and.
The because control is really giving up during this experience and it’s unavoidable to go to those places and they can be very very intense.
And another way of looking at this is that is that in the can this really think people have varying belief systems around this but that.
That do in experience like this gives one an opportunity to come in contact with the spirit world and.
And this girl might be filled with very very positive out of this experience that there might be darker energies out there as well that someone may come in contact with.

[14:05] Wow so your first time doing in moscow things that you are comfortable sharing what do you remember from it what was revealed to you.
It’s just that i’ve done i lost your psychedelic and so as sort of an outsider looking in and really interested in but what happened.

[14:23] Yeah in many ways talking about experience this summer talking about a dream.
You can sort of the idea that remember parts of it but it’s that if you got expression items then when you try to capture something mystical it’s like.
Turn the catches the essence of the streaming a bucket so talking about it is sort of like that for me.
What number for my first time is that was really supplying it was not difficult it was not scary it a.
If you like i can be separated for my ego which is to say that i experience myself as being a separate entity.
There’s this thing called the unity of consciousness known as the more common as all are one.
And then i thought that for the five hours that i was that there was no nothing separating myself or anything else and,
in the cosmos and i was when is applying,
place to be and for those five hours and then really fascinated by all the work with integral theory recently which talks looking all the different developmental models basically being in one towards that universal consciousness and,
i’m going out to the integral living room in bolder this fall with the end of my.
And so it it’s interesting when there certain patterns in your life where you and i set up this podcast interview months ago not even talking about going this direction but like.

[15:53] Yeah two or three weeks ago my friends that helps go to boulder in november and that these things start kind of like layering upon themselves in my life personally.

[16:04] Yesterday i actually might my cars in the shop and i got an uber ride home and i have this wonderful conversation with a young woman who is sounds has suffered quite deeply from depression.
Her entire life and a lot of steps to set the and she was able to take part in an experiment in new york with kinda means i was is synthetic substance found that people are using to treat.
Depression anxiety and so we had this wonderful conversation about plant medicine and hospital can be helping people with.
Address concerns that were other things that matter the presence of love from really wanting.

[16:48] So i feel like if i were to do it i would get so paranoid and worried that i do it wrong or they i’d you know make a fool of myself for people that have never done something like this what it vice would you have in regards to.
Exploring dipping your toes in or like or is it that you can dip your toes you gotta just jump into the deep end.
And now i don’t get to jump it events they can be really really like i said earlier really intense and i think going into it.
I’m slowly there is very very open it it’s very important.

[17:23] You are a lot people doing this right now that’s all under cover of secrecy because it is it legal that is happening all over the place and.
And i think they are strong roots practicing with really strong inches.
Doing very work but i think it is also i will i know that they’re there a lot of people out there practicing or unqualified of the ceremonies.
And the person reading this or money as a lot of weight on your shoulders very important thing so.
I think my biggest my biggest thing that to messes is someone has done all of the work and thirty is great for this i would say.
If someone is on all the work is it that they’re ready to explore this in the task of making sure that their first experiences with someone they can be completely trust my.
And i’m assuming people wouldn’t have a website like i lost the ceremony specialist so when i grew is it just kind of your networks of friends that.
People could explore this or find out more about it and its gets interesting because so there’s this is elements of.
Is a recent power dynamics are in second looks in the united states on dirt are sleeping done by.
But people who are educated and quite often white so because and ending the display and no one’s really making money off of this.
So you think those three things together and more lastly serving people alone or the fda dea reading people on.

[19:00] Up until now knock on wood is to his podcast goes live ski that will not following me.
Well there’s so much on my mind about this so.
Why does my braces because you know if your if you’re in for and you’re blocking you doing illegal substances that doesn’t get hard much greater you.
What courses shame yeah anyway.

[19:27] It’s happening all over the place and its happening everywhere so since someone starts turning their attention sort psychedelic squeezy if i’m communities okay and a lot of organizations online that better very signs of the rigorous for people can.
Can this contact.
So i guess i’m thinking i know we probably have some people that for one reason or another would push back on this approach to have a counselor saying.
I think you should go to psychedelic certainly i hear you say you sure what you’re talking about your own experience so we.
So the tube and it’s been a positive thing what would you say to a substance abuse counselors people that are fairly conservative in their beliefs about substances in regards to.
Maybe the benefits you’ve seen or heard how you sure there’s people you see probably shouldn’t do this or this could be detrimental to you they take us through those kinda things.
Yeah i guess it’s actually quite a subsequent important there are a lot of different medications that can be next.
What’s it like in alaska or other things like the games.
And some like i said earlier really needs to know what they are but they’re moving into need to do a lot of talking and researching,
before they in the front of the cans to the substance abuse counselors i would.
Heartily recommend a double that of on-line research because they are conducting studies all over the place and especially in latin america.

[21:00] Showing how haven’t packed full.
Something like i lost or something like i became which comes from africa and which is another natural substance home catholic and helping people break cycles of addiction.
In my own experience so i don’t have any i have never had any objections substances like everyone else i have an addictive patterns,
what i find is.
After using these after doing a ceremony is so much easier for me to come home and break whatever department normally as its ground meat it just falls away.
Now if i am eating discipline around that will come right back again but i can’t maintain discipline i can more lasting was to happen.

[21:49] Wow so where do you what why do you think that is.

[21:55] I’m not sure i know you’re lastly some things happening something changing bring.
But i’m not sure there are people out there who are quite sure and not only when the interviews people to go up there another job you can find it interesting.
I remember i was reading steve jobs biography in one of the things that was one of his common questions to the higher-ups an apple.
Was what was their first lsd experience like,
if someone hadn’t had one that was like adding against them and they do really gonna prove themselves for him that was such a positive and creative outlet,
that’s it was even let you know when into the higher ups at apple,
it is interesting because i think i was raised in midwest northern michigan and went to catholic school.
And you knew raised in a certain environment overtime you start to meet people that you know,
don’t fit the mold that you’ve been hot and i think that’s true and all of our lives and to see people exploring these things and slowly kind of releasing the chains of their childhood or other people’s childhood is really interesting to me,
i think that this was even like beyond i alaska where we have certain ways that we’ve been raised that maybe we push back against.
What what would you say regards to.
The benefits outside of just when you have done i alaska like either practices that you have.

[23:26] That kinda sustain the experience or give you continued inside the is just can having to go back to the well i alaska.
Is that something that’s interesting about it for me is that or not interesting when we take really helps me concert in my life is that.

[23:47] It keeps me in the center of my experience purposely back to the center experience so in my life i’ve when i phone them or unconscious,
i’m helpful patterns drift away from the centre my spirits somewhere along the periphery of the edge of my experience and intensity when my own personal experience of suffering is exacerbated my,
when is it when it was their money or to the test me right back in the middle again so it’s that you can see that knowledge.
That’s all the knowledge and the teacher in our way but like all teachers it doesn’t it doesn’t come home with you after you leave the classroom until you what to do when to do it.
It’s not user cultivated discipline around what you’ve learned or what i’ve learned so in my experience.
Do is be right changes last two years i’ve been practicing this discipline.
If so much easier for me to do the simple things like hey attention to my diet spend time in nature spend time being quiet.
Spend time away from the internet.
My family in a way where i am much more presents to all of these things are also disciplines and which i think are much more sustainable and helpful in the long run,
so when you say your practice over the last few years what does that look like i will ask every month every weekend every quarter and then outside of that time.

[25:19] What are you doing is it just kinda happened where it’s easier to use staff the internet its easier to be present or do you have meditation practices and now you do yoga that.
That really fuels that amplifies that teaching yeah both things like i said i think that.
It’s very easy for us especially in this culture we’re all living now to the little to sleep.
Everything is set up so fast to close your eyes and go to sleep and just sort of new to the world as unconscious the as possible and.
What is sounds rough estimate us work is that is constantly like any good teachers saying we got.
Wake up so the more than tables to wake up the easier it is for me to do other things which are also constantly beckoning me to wake up on my seven year old son or like being out in the woods for example.

[26:15] Yeah it’s interesting me think about how that idea of.
Society culture politics trying to lol you to sleep how old that tactic is four can the masses even the romans when they would come in and take over a new town one of the first things he would do.
Is put in an amphitheater so that there would be entertainment and they will start providing the daily bread for everybody so that they were well fed and they were well entertained.
And they were less likely to rise up and then they would have passed slaves come in and rule over the current slaves and it’s just like.
That’s crazy dynamic if we give them their entertainment and we give them their pot pies like they’ll just not rise up and think outside and so.
Even this washer say now is such an old approached kinda ruling of society it it’s really interesting.

[27:10] Yeah there’s these old stories this amount of.
Doing research the government research of last in the nineteen fifties forties or fifties where they were pretty sixties where they were you’re giving it to our own soldiers because they were thinking about recognizing it somehow and.
Hey when they realize that after the ghost soldier and the first one on this amazing journey for twelve hours or eight hours to come out of that thing.
Yeah i’m not really to sure one of the soldier or a measurement is worth thing man will.
Interesting so i was signed by a wasp and what other can plant medicines that have different benefits and,
if there’s one that you’re not familiar with that’s fine too but yeah i just in alaska what else is out there to for those of us are familiar with this world.

[28:01] Yes a most people are probably familiar since i vintage often comes in the form of mushrooms there other things like god and other south american.
Substances like san pedro which is still here talking to a cactus interesting well.
So you been doing with no there’s a lot more we talk about it or to this area but with open half collective and with your new project being seen,
i’m wondering if there’s any thing that has informed those projects from paris first part of the interview or if it’s kinda compartmentalized junior had.

[28:39] Yeah that’s a great question i just read his book by this franciscan priests and always on.
So falling upward by richard rohr you and i haven’t read it but it’s on my list but the sugar is awesome.
Yeah it’s so interesting and so does this is it still says your idea that there to supply it of our lives in the first half is sort of really considered are concerned with building it go in,
interesting idea second just answer deconstructing that ego and identity.
And unfortunately most people never get to the second half of their lives in new chronological second half of their life they spend much of their time trying to rebuild with a filter in the first half of their license.
And then suffer accordingly,
and his whole pieces is that the only way to get to the second half of your life is to actively engage in mock pain and suffering and shame and humiliation won’t and that if you can move in to that answer this,
this year was kind of way and keep moving to keep moving insurance on you come out as the second half of your life switches.
Yeah i think that’s important messages permissions to know that this is really work that we’re doing with our clients when it comes to helping them encounter in the space for their own pain.

[30:03] Anyway what in the book the book is one that a friend of mine whenever we celebrate one of our friends fortieth.
He gives them a copy of it just packed in so much and so in about a year and a half i will probably get that book from my friend i also fully goes cheating by like reading it early cuz they turn forty and about you know you’re in half so.
All read it then.

[30:28] Yeah that’s interesting makes the point that you know some people really big in the second half their lives in their twenties because of what the brewers some people don’t get their dollar sixty eight so you.
Yeah that’s great it’s a great but it brings in millions for sure and an unwilling to that mission that’s for sure so that people can check that out.

[30:47] In terms of how i know that.
One thing is my experience of madison’s done this is really against my own creativity in my own sense of being more than an expensive the world.
And i’m trying to bring to open past and not being seen and i think just from a.
From a philosophical true ge in like the idea of these organizations moving and sitting second half of life organizations mount everest or musicians that are there to do good in the world are not spend time propping themselves.
I think i have to spend a certain amount of time popping open path in order to get some places legitimacy but i think with their now and i really like the idea of.

[31:38] Really more or missing almost all of our energies on the externally oriented.

[31:46] I like it so tell me a little bit about being seen cuz i know you reached out about this project may be three or four months ago we started talking about it and there so many aspects of their just incredible.
How do you start thinking about being seen tell us about have core parts of what is and a little bit about the development of the project sir.
So and been happy every since people.
Kinda thinking a portable thirty and i started getting emails or right therapist we have over three thousand or best now started getting senile from people saying hey you did a great job sending us.
The clients have it can you send us a close the blinds are insurance pays clients and anyone get in to the game because there’s so many directory listing sites out there is no.
And the more i thought about it the more you know maybe we’re actually in a unique position to do something different to do something working but they are insisting say.
Yeah great valkyries got such a wonderful is that a guy and a great staff so it will we have this team being put together size maybe create something unique which i think we’re done.
So waiting seen worse is that it starts off it is very affordable rate it’s only a hundred dollars a year for open past their center hundred fifty for a bit therapists on.
And its service satisfaction guarantee so if someone signs on after eleven and a half months they feel like they haven’t got their money’s worth than welcome to read this email refund their money.

[33:18] Where is my mind you that is in part because we have confidence that were gonna make it we might not we just caught and is very well that we want to be transparent wanna say this is something that were on together.
And we’re counting on your support financially if you feel like you can get it back from austin and will make good on our end and return that money to.
All the money that we do collects from this the proceeds get rebounds were in passing were really try hard.
The oven has a very sperm financial ground so it will be around for a long time but the.

[33:51] So who is really fueling this project that helps people get affordable counseling thing is sliding fee.

[34:00] Yeah i’m saying this is a great way to market your practice support social justice than anyone out there saying i love that.
Three ways to market once practice while supporting social justice while.
It’s usual that’s the only two for line and the client gets you know as well so three for one and so when you are looking at creating being seen what were things you saw in the market with psychology today or other.
Profile type sites that you said you know we want to do that a little bit different and what were things that maybe said i want to actually keep that as we can sketch out what being seen is what it is and how it’s different from other profile tech sites.
Sure the first thing is that if you not the largest competitor one of the largest out there on the odds of actually.
Being seen coming up and google search are or creek there a lot of service the size there that have a really hard time getting each one someone doesn’t search where they have to invest a lot of money to add word budget make sure they’re coming first.
Conversely the big in the company that you mentioned today right now my opinion become so saturated due to their own success and they.
That was amazing thing but if you come from a moderate to large sized city there usually hundreds or thousands of cases of service up there so the odds of actually having your profile come up to one of the first apple pages are really really.

[35:31] It is my service comes to those is keep getting lower by the day.
So nothing happens to start being seen is there a password of owning quite a bit of our address but he make sure they were coming out consistently and surges and then limiting the number of people i can comment a stop population size city.
So so cute and innocent hundred thousand people were never gonna look more than a hundred people there isn’t a directory.

[35:58] Wow so i know i have a ton of consulting clients that are in new york la i can really large market so this would be a great way for them to be seen.
Hence the name to be seen in those markets and to know that there’s never gonna be above a certain amount of counselors that are in being seen.
Yeah we’re doing a really large markets like new york or la is really any city has population of three hundred thousand or more were letting on maximum number three hundred thirty seven.
Oh okay i have never brand new those all those all the settings really have you now but only a couple dozen so yeah coming up on page one or two or almost a hundred percent.
What’s the year you pay for the address to get being seen in the top and all these different markets then because it’s so new.
They’re gonna automatically pretty much be on the first page because they’re just not as many people have signed up for being seen yet so really like right now it’s a way to support social justice and also.
Really be seen quickly it seems like when your starting practice this would be a great way to get your name out there quickly so that’s all thank okay.
So how like huge track.
Conversions are track calls that no one thing people like about psychology today it’s like there’s the unique phone number and email when someone calls or what functions do you have the guys built-in which ones did you say maybe not yet or not at all,
are within being seen because the stats and cannot following how many conversions happen through being seen.

[37:34] Yeah we do right now is be right now we’re sitting upper analytics tracking and so that’s not having a life or are there yet but it will be.
We were doing it seems like all you have to go so numbers mentioned ge into that and frankly we can’t afford it that’s a very expensive service,
we talking about having hundreds and hundreds of the song numbers so what we do is our say there’s we go to the service profile page,
there is a button you press to see the person’s phone number and the,
so that way the phone gets her heels and we know that god reveals things that we can send a tracking that there i like that,
that’s cool yes of creative work ethic put the money back and open path rather than into a phone number service what we,
if every counselor in the world were listening right now i need talk to a lot of different things what would you want them to know and to take away.

[38:37] I don’t know i don’t know that’s a question number still the answering feeling as delight to the wonderful thing about this profession is that is that but was all service today are such dedicated learners.
So they all have such nearly all spent so much time learning something that’s interesting to me that i haven’t spent time learning,
so the last three years i’ve been really embarrassing myself in plant medicine and i can talk about to some extent but filling everyone other listening also has their thing just let,
equally interesting that they talk about servers and they gonna positions.
To make a recommendation on some well paul is giving away a one year of being seen totally free and if you want a chance to get that,
he’s going to over probably the next two weeks after this cuz live be accepting e-mails from people,
and then is to use a random number generator to pick the winner,
so if you want that i want you to email paul it’s paul and being seen dot word again that’s paul and being seen dot org if you want,
access the get a chance to win that one year of being seen for free this is,
awesome it’s so cool surgical platform were so excited to be able to help,
call with this project and announce it so again if you want a chance at that one year for free of being seen email paul at being seen dot org.
Paul thank you so much for being on the practice the practice podcast thanks joe’s was a pleasure knowing for to seeing you next month.

[40:11] Sounds good to use in it but.

[40:14] Music.

[40:21] Well if you haven’t picked up on it but now i absolutely love interviewing people with interesting stories that are doing interesting things following my creativity and following,
i just might interest and sometimes it leaves and practice sometimes it doesn’t.
Hunting and it’s all about just like the nuts and bolts of running a private practice and sometimes it’s just super interesting stuff.
And today’s episode of always i just love talking to paul so much.
And having them challenge some of my thoughts and psychedelic drug use to would’ve thought that would come out of my mouth to say that be interested in just history and how maybe the things we’ve been raised with my eight have.
Different point of view as we learn more about.

[41:07] I will help you guys grow head on over to practiceofthepractice.com/practiceessentials if you want to sign up for any of those governors that are coming up will be releasing those kind of daily monthly week the as those come up so if there’s not a time that works for you.
Go back and check it.
Also thanks so much to snapshot studio slept studio is the premier website design company would you want a specific heater to amazing website that you have complete control over building.
So again having a snapshot studio that conversation go to checkout their information and.
Excellent cheers major brain you guys rock cf.
Special thanks to the band sounds of sexy in his pocket is defined right after thirty two information react with subject matter covered in skin with the understanding that new the host,
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and we are held harmless for anything you choose to do is result this interview it up.

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