Anna Lindberg Cedar has Dealt with Some Trauma Series 2 of 5 Five Fierce Females | PoP 279

Five fierce females

Are you on the verge of burnout? Do you know what steps you can take to avoid burnout? Do you suffer from ‘survivor’s guilt’?

In this episode, Joe Sanok speaks with Anna Lindberg Cedar about dealing with some trauma.

Podcast Sponsor

We’ve created a lot of stuff, i.e.: opt ins, PDFs, e-books. At Practice of the Practice, we’re constantly developing things and making them accessible to you. But, sometimes, it’s hard to keep track of it all. So we’ve set up a landing page,, where we have put all of our free stuff. We have five free e-books there: the ‘Practice of the Practice’ e-book; the ‘HIPAA and Security’ e-book that I wrote with Roy Huggins; the ‘Adding Insurance to Your Practice’ e-book; the ‘How to Start a Group Practice’ e-book that Alison and I created; and the ‘How to Start a Practice That Thrives’ e-book.

Also, we’ve got checklists there galore! We’ve got your ‘Website’ checklist, your ‘Pinterest’ checklist, your ’28-Step Checklist for Starting a Practice’, and your ‘Group Practice’ checklist. Also, we’ve got some guides there: there’s ‘A Guide to Creating a Website’, ‘Comprehensive Guide to a Kick-Ass Content Strategy’, ‘A Guide to Start a Private Practice’, and tons more infographics, and worksheets. We have over 20 different, free resources there for you! It’s over at Go grab them before we start charging!

Meet Anna Lindberg Cedar

Anna Lindberg Cedar, MPA, LCSW is a Bay Area psychotherapist who specializes in burnout prevention. Anna integrates burnout prevention principles throughout her work counseling individuals, consulting with executive teams, and providing clinical supervision to therapists. Many of Anna’s burnout prevention strategies are drawn from expert training in Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) , as well as more than 20 years of learned experience working as a helping professional. Find out more about Anna’s burnout prevention counseling and consulting work on her website and in her writings as a Contributor to The Mighty and a Top Writer with Medium. You can also find her on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter.

Anna Lindberg Cedar’s Story

Anna started her practice a year ago after spending 20 years working in non-profits. She’s worked with torture survivors and in a federal detention centre. Anna wanted more flexibility in her work and now specialises in burn-out prevention.

In This Podcast


In this episode, Anna provides some insight into her profound experience working with torture survivors and several other NGOs. She also speaks around how she came to start a private practice focused on avoiding burnout. Anna shares some tips around how to properly take care of yourself, as a counselor, and ensure you don’t burn out.

Self-Care for Counselors

Having counselled torture survivors, Anna had to become good at self-care. She shares the following tips to avoid burnout:

  • Doing effective work (seeing results)
  • Understand the body’s fight or flight response
  • Give yourself permission to take a break (even in the session)
  • Rituals of separation at the end of your day
  • Mindfulness
  • Maintaining your happiness through:
    • Flow (experience)
    • Meaning
    • Pleasure

“Seeing the incredible resilience of the human spirit is what kept me going in my work with torture survivors.”

Tips for the Start-Up Phase of Private Practice

  • Love the process and not just the outcome
  • Deal with your inner critic
  • Have good, external boundaries, i.e.: don’t take cases that are not for you out of desperation
  • Maintain your internal boundaries, i.e.: how you treat yourself
  • Get support, i.e.: professional consultation group and family support

Useful Links:

Meet Joe Sanok

private practice consultantJoe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.






Thanks For Listening!

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Podcast Transcription

File: PoP 279 Anna Lindberg Cedar has Dealt with Some Trauma
Duration: 00:38:53:00

[START 00:00:00.02] Joe Sanok: We’ve created a lot of stuff. I mean, opt-ins, PDFs, e-books. At Practice of the Practice, we’re constantly developing things and making them accessible to you. But sometimes it’s hard to keep track of it all. So we just set up the landing page – where we have put all of our free stuff. We have five free e-books there: the “Practice of the practice e-book,” the HIPPA and security e-book that I wrote with Roy Huggins, the “Adding Insurance to Your Practice E-book,” the “How to Start a Group Practice E-book that Alison and I created, and the “How to Start a Practice That Thrives E-book.” Also we have got checklist there galore. We have got your website checklist, you Pinterest checklist, your 28-step checklist for starting a practice, and your group practice checklist. Also, we have got some guides there: “A Counselor’s Guide to Creating Websites,” “A comprehensive Guide to a Kick-Ass Content Strategy,” a guide to start a private practice, and tons more, info graphics, worksheets. We have over 20 different free resources there for you. So over at, go grab them before we start charging.


Joe Sanok: This is the Practice of the Practice Podcast with Joe Sanok, session #279.

[MUSIC] [INTRODUCTION] Joe Sanok: We are on episode number two of our five Fierce Female series, here in February spotlighting some amazing women that are doing amazing clinical work and work with technology and all sorts of different approaches. Last week we talked to Dr. Angela Johnson. Next week, we are talking to Melissa Dohse, and this week we are talking to Anna Lindberg Cedar. These are women that are doing really interesting things in our field and coming up with ideas and just, just really growing the field.

So I wanted to just thank you guys. We almost hit a 100,000 downloads last month and that’s insane when you think about how many people are listening to this podcast. I just wanted to take a second to say “Thank You” for that. Thank you for sharing it. But even more thanks for revolutionizing private practice. It’s one thing to just start a practice and to do that. But to be active, to be changing things for the better and to be challenging the status quo, standing up to insurance companies or even leaving them to offer different or better care, you all are so inspiring. And being a part of this audience I see less as an audience and more as a bunch of colleagues that are doing such interesting work. And I love hearing from all of you and what you are doing to challenge the status quo and really make private practice something that practitioners want to go into and that it’s super fun and awesome and can change your life. So keep up the good work. Thank you so much for sharing this and without any further ado, I give you Anna Lindberg Cedar.


Joe Sanok: Well, today on the Practice of the Practice Podcast, we have Anna LIndberg Cedar. She is Bay Area Psychotherapist who specializes in burnout prevention. She integrates burnout prevention principles throughout her work, counseling individuals, consulting with executive teams and providing clinical supervision to therapists. Many of Anna’s burnout prevention strategies are drawn from training with DBT. Anna, welcome to the Practice of the Practice Podcast.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Hi Joe. Thanks for having me. I am really happy to be here. Really enjoyed listening to the show and every week I get something out of it. So really I’m appreciative of all the good work that you are doing.

Joe Sanok: Yeah, it’s so cool to see how much you have grown your practice and it will be fun to kind of give back to people that are just at the beginning phases.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Thank you. Yeah, I am really happy to be here.

Joe Sanok: Yeah, well, tell me a little bit about when you first started your practice?

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Well, I started my practice just a year ago. So it’s a pretty new venture for me and I decided to do that after working for 20 years in non-profits. I started in Latin America, filming betweens doing public health work and community organizing. And after that I continued to work for the underdog, just open up again. I worked with torture survivors from around the world as a program director in San Francisco, and I worked in a federal detention center doing group therapy and spent the last seven years working primarily with undocumented immigrants at a primary care setting doing counseling. And so I have had just really the good fortune of doing really rewarding work. And I am also, you know… I have a family and I have other interests that I want to explore and wanted more flexibility in my work. And so it’s interesting that I specialize in burnout prevention because that’s why I went into private practice, so that I could… I was never necessarily… I didn’t need to be my own boss or anything like that. That never was a goal of mine, but it turns out that having a private practice. That means she is working on a due and on the length of your sessions and how frequently you see people. And I also have a program planning background having an MPA and an MSW. So I am always thinking about how the macro meets the micro, and the whole person and environment they may take that really to broader levels, and so…

Joe Sanok: I want to interrupt you.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Sure.

[SELF CARE FOR COUNSELORS] Joe Sanok: I want to go back to working with torture survivors and burnout prevention because that to me stands out as really, really tough work. Like anyone can talk about burnout prevention. It’s probably someone that works with torture survivors. So before we get too far into your story, I will go back to that. You have to share kind of experiences from that, but what kind of self-care does a counselor working with torture survivors have to do or what were things that you did in that situation to take care of yourself?

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Yeah, yeah. And this is where I have to pay attention to my kind of workaholism because I really, really enjoy my work. I really enjoy my work. And so I’ve always kind of looked for the most intense version of it. And working with torture survivors was a really intense experience and I did here just kind of the worst things imaginable that you couldn’t think of one doing to another person. And when I was doing that work and you know at a dinner party would tell someone what my job title was they would ask me isn’t that so depressing. And of course it was. But the reason I stayed in that work was because I saw just the incredible resilience of the human spirit. And so that is what kept me going in that work [00:07:33.15] we will talk about with burnout prevention kind of what will feel you through 20 years of work like that, but really seeing resilience. Otherwise, I won’t be doing this work. If I just got paid to see people in counseling, but it didn’t actually help, I would burn out.

Joe Sanok: Yeah.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: So doing effective work is another really important part of burnout.

Joe Sanok: So are there times that stand out for you that you had a real rough day and you kind of processed it either on the drive home or like I’m just thinking I know that there is clients that I have had, especially earlier in my career…

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Yeah.

Joe Sanok: … You just don’t forget. And when you have had those kind of days, what did you do on the drive home so that when you were having dinner with your family, you weren’t just a mess?

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Yeah. I love that question because I definitely have times that stand out in my mind and when I talk to people about burnout prevention the place I always start is understanding the body’s fight or flight response. And so we know that memories are encoded more strongly in our memory when we have emotional responses to an experience. So I have imprinted in my mind a gentleman who I saw newly out of grad school who had really specific plans to commit suicide by [00:09:03.20], and could hurt someone in the process. And he was not interested in services and didn’t end in a wellness check and he eventually did get connected to services. But in that moment I remember being so scared for him and scared for the situation. And luckily I had really, really good support. So we were able to put a really good plan in place. And I remember that feeling of, you know, hyperarousal and heart beating fast and muscle tension and racing thoughts, and that I was in fight or flight. And something I have learned over the years with mindfulness and DVT is you know observing that reaction in a moment, reminding yourself that this is a challenging situation, but I am safe. If I am not safe, I am going to call 911, but if I am safe I can get myself a permission to seize the body. Because fight or flight interrupts executive functioning and other important aspects of biological tools that you need to do your job and to make appropriate assessments, you need to interrupt that with paced breathing or progressive muscle relax or a cup of tea, anything that seized the body. And so something I have learned [00:10:33] on was that if I am feeling upset, probably my client is feeling upset as well in a crisis like that. And it’s a great time to just take a break and do some… you know what, this is a really stressful conversation seems like let’s take a break and return to the breath and I really want to understand you and I really want to hear you. So giving myself permission as a counselor to take breaks in the session, so reducing the stress in the moment is a really important tool and then definitely having rituals of separation after your day. So first thing I do when I get home is like to put on my comfiest PJs and you know I brush my teeth or I do anything that makes me feel separate from my day. And then I talk to my family about other things. And I need to make sure that I have confidential spaces where I can see consultation and process my feelings in that way and then when I am home. I’m home, you know. I look into the faces of my children and I hug my partner tightly and I eat good food and I’m mindful in those experiences as well.

Joe Sanok”: Yeah, it’s amazing how having those things that really bring out that mindfulness can separate you from the really difficult work we do. Recently I took up curling, you know throwing stones on the ice and sweeping out. I thought it was going to be a kind of easy sport and it’s actually very harder than I thought. But you know, when you are on the ice, it’s really hard to be thinking about anything other than those stones and sweeping and not falling on your face because you know it is ice. And ah…

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Yeah… I [00:12:21.28] about Zumba.

Joe Sanok: Oh, yeah. [LAUGH]

Anna Lindberg Cedar: You know, it’s impossible not to smile when you do the Zumba and just the music is so good and you are in your body…

Joe Sanok: Or like my wife. She is in a orchestra and you have to play music, you have to be playing attention to the notes and what’s going on and everyone around you and.. I think often times on this podcast we talk about kind of business and marketing and all those things that help her business and planning ahead. But there are those things that we have to also integrate into our lives that just totally shut our brains off from business or trauma or the work that we do as well.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Yeah, that’s exactly right. And I am really happy to say that because I find not only mindfulness helpful, but also the frame for positive psychology. So Martin Seligman defines happiness. When a lot of people think of happiness, they think of chocolates and vacations and long walks on the beach and they are think of pleasure. Right? And Seligman say that happiness is also flow, you know, where you are immersed in an experience. Now, people experience a lot of urge or sports and then meaning. So when I talk about burnout prevention, I encourage people to think about are they achieving that balance. So we as counselors are so fortunate that our job is absolute rich in meaning which is one of the main reasons I do it, and then within that you can look for, you know, as a private practitioner I am going to look for opportunities. You know if I have no show, I can call up one of my old non-profit colleagues and offer some free consultation or I can give a talk at a local library or I can do [00:14:09.25] kid. And all of those give me meaning. Right? And then for me flow comes from my specialty. Because I am absolutely in flow when I give a talk to… you know if I go to a non-profit and do training on burnout prevention, I am in the zone because that is my bag. That is what I enjoy talking about, and then pleasure. I think a lot of counselors actually struggle with building in pleasure into their routine. So the way I have done that is I have a beautiful office in Oakland across the street from Lake Merritt. And if you’ve been to Oakland, you know that that’s just the most beautiful spot. And I have a shower in my office building. So if I have no shower, I take a run around the lake which for me is just like the peak of pleasure to be able to listen to a podcast, say Practice of the Practice and take a run along the lake and come back and be able to sink clearly and be in flow and [00:15:15.00] doing meaningful work. So…

Joe Sanok: [00:15:17.14] [CROSSTALK] you think the counselors don’t necessarily focus on pleasure, comes from maybe that guilt. We were talking beforehand about kind of money mindset. And I wonder if whether it’s having a nice office or allowing yourself the luxury of going for a run or having a cup of tea or ever like spending a bunch of money on a nice dinner comes from when you’ve seen the world, when you have [00:15:40.12] or [00:15:41.15] micro finance program in Haiti and it’s like people are making a $100 a year, how can I spend the $100 on dinner out? How much of that you think is integrated into why we don’t want to do is [00:15:54.29] of that guilt or that money mindset hangout?

Anna Lindberg Cedar: I definitely think that survivor’s skill is humongous part of this work and I can only talk for myself, but you know I have a lot of privilege just a white [00:16:16.16] able-bodied woman in the world. I carry layers and layers of privilege and that is part of what drew me to the work is just with great privilege, there must be responsibility [00:16:33.00] like that. And then just on a daily stress level it is challenging because if you let survivors skill kind of into each and every one of your decisions, it’s going to end up being an unhealthy lifestyle. So when I think about guilt, I really want to think about what’s productive. And so if guilt helps me connect or pay attention to my values, that’s really, really productive. That’s really important to me because I as someone who grew up in [00:17:06.19] a really rich training, and I feel like I owe the community to give those skills back, and I have to have a sustainable business in order to do that. So I have hopes over the years of training lots of new professionals and I’m especially committed to working with immigrant communities and professionals of color. So that’s something that I want to integrate into my business, but I do think you can do both and I think this is where, you know, DBT and the concept of dialectic is really useful because you can do both and it’s not yes but. It’s both and it reminds me of when I was just becoming a mom and going through childbirth training classes, there was a women who was asking, I forget exactly what her question was, but the birth coach’s response to her was you know lot of times new moms, maybe they think of themselves as little bit more [00:18:13.22] or planner, think that all of a sudden when they become a parent they have to become this natural, like [00:18:21.13] mom. I think lot of women feel pressure to do drug-free and attachment parent versus other or mommy [00:18:27.18] a lot of moms feel that pressure. And the birth coach’s advice to her was if you are a planner, do that. Bring back into your birth experience. And so I think as a counselor if you have passions and if one of them is to get back to the community, do that. Right? And then do it from a sustainable place.

Joe Sanok: Well, I think there is also these kind of stages we go through. I think when I first got back from Haiti, when I was 21 so, yeah, I remember being in a shower at the hotel in Miami and just being like oh, my gosh. I am wasting so much clean water and there is all this soap here and I shouldn’t even flush the toilet. And whether it’s you’ve seen the world, whether it’s… you know, I think a lot of people have spiritual experiences that disrupt maybe how they were raised or whatever it is that the life you have had , you have something that disrupts that . The next face often times is you just deconstruct everything. I can’t believe that I am not going to believe any of it or I am not going to…

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Yeah.

Joe Sanok: … and it’s almost is like tearing down the old, but then it seems like as people grow and mature and kind of find more of a centered or rounded place within whatever your social work is, whatever your social justice is , whatever your spiritual changes, that there you then kind of go back and find the things that were true in that original whether it’s a faith, whether it’s an approach to the world kind whatever that change is to then say, okay, here’s the elements that I am going to take from that and I can throw out the rest and that maturing it seems like often times than people get more grounded in their work. They are more at peace with being able to live their life. But then they also have what you were talking about. That appreciation for… I have lot of privilege. Even just being anyone in the United States, Our toilet water is cleaner than above 50% of world’s water. And so even just that alone or looking at when you look at and see where even if you make $20,000 a year, you line up according to the world. [00:20:31.23] that can give you some perspective but then if you live in guilt all of the way through, that doesn’t exactly help you change the world or improve the world.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Yeah. Yeah, it’s kind of like going back to the basics of CBT, is that quite helping you or hurting you and isn’t helping you to do the work that you want to do. You know, some of that thoughts are true. You do have proportionally more wealth and maybe you should give it all, you know. But would you be able to do the same kind of work if you didn’t have a business that helped you, you know gain access to people. I because I do burnout prevention and then I am in the Bay area. I am surrounded by really energized, talented peoples doing, founding startups and creating completely new models. And those tools impact our lives and I as a consumer want people in positions of power and influence and impact to be healthy and make sound decisions because we all [00:21:36.04] benefit from UIDS and hopefully that the person kind of influencing that is coming from a good place as well.

Joe Sanok: So you have 18-19 years of this kind of background in non-profits and then a year ago you launched your private practice. I wanted to spend some time hearing about kind of your view of the world and because when we enter the private practice often times it feels like, oh, we just have to do the Joe Sanok way. Or we just have to do the Allison Puryear way or the Zinny [00:22:07.07] way or whoever you follow. And there is great tips in all of that, but then ultimately it’s your private practice. And so you came to private practice with, you’re this big heart, years of background. How do you then take all of who you are as Anna and then put that into starting a practice? What were things you considered? What were ways you approached it. Take us through that initial phase of starting a practice.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Well, some of that narrative I am still writing. So I am interested to see what comes next, because this is really the first time in my life where I have always had a five year plan. Again, this is not first time in my life I am just playing. I am just doing the things that really make me happy and all of it just kind of happens to, you know, be good work because I am trained in evidence-based counseling methods. So, you know, direct goal behavior therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, mindfulness, acceptance and commitment therapy. All those tools are really, really attractive. So my new vision, you now, what I am starting to practice. I want to disseminate those tools to as many people as possible. And just I am just a solo practitioner right now. But I am kind of consulting with different startups and different models and I have hopes in the future of starting a group practice and being a mentor to people, new to the profession who want to get those skills which is really exciting for me because it helps me go and [00:23:41.18] micro and a macro. So part of my burnout prevention not just seeing the problems that people you know tend to have but also looking at systemic solutions to them, and something that’s been really fun is using technology in my counseling practice. So I partnered with an app called [00:24:04.09] which less clinicians use, you know clients get to using app and then a [00:24:12.20] tracking and journaling and making take assessments and then the therapist has access to all that information. So I can see week to week. I try this intervention and it works. And we get to see those results all the time. So I’ve taken all the tools that I have learned from my training in nonprofits and now I am just playing with how to give those to lots of different people in [00:24:43.16]. So now I am working more in work settings. People may be referred by their employers or it may be an employee benefit and that’s also really great [00:24:53.17] access to people because we spend more time at work with our colleagues than we do with partners and families. So that’s a really important context to look at.

Joe Sanok: Yeah. And I like the use of the word playing, because a lot of people on their first couple years when they are in that start phase before they get to that growth and that scaling phase, they take themselves really seriously and we should on one level.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: But I have definitely done that [LAUGH]

Joe Sanok: [LAUGH] Right, right. And not that just because you are playing you can’t take yourself seriously too. and there is a lot, you know, you want to reduce your risks. You want to make sure that you’re kind of doing the right steps where you are at. But how did you get into that mindset of approaching it as play because that feels to me unique or different than a lot of people approach starting a practice?

Anna Lindberg Cedar: It’s new to me . It’s not consistent with my personality. Like I am a planner. I’m very much [00:25:53.24]. I like knowing what’s going to happen and I’m bringing those skills that turns out are useful in planning private practice because I am comforted by being proactive. And private practice requires an openness because there are ups and downs. There’s lots of possibilities and excitement. I’m already that amazed by the things that have come my way like just exactly as you have said on your podcast a million times. If you put out blog post, you will be surprised by who will read them and I have had startups [00:26:31.13] we like these ideas and we want to do them and I had had individuals who are not coming to me private practice, but I just enjoying being my work and that feels so good to me to be able to get that away for free. So it’s a new… I think it comes from having such a… I had kind of a regimented schedule the last couple of years because I did a service plan that was funded to the federal government and that had a really strict schedule and I think I’m jus thirsty for newness and flexibility and creativity. And I love nonprofits and I will always be an advocate for nonprofits and they will always look for ways to partner and get back. But there are some structural difficulties there, you know just restrictions from grants and kind of the way that we are used to doing things and so I just discovered this opportunity to shake things up and it turns [00:27:36.07] like it and it’s fun. But it’s not, yeah, it didn’t come to me naturally. So it’s kind of out of necessity really.

[TIPS: START-UP PHASE OF PRIVATE PRACTICE] Joe Sanok: Yeah. So for people that are in that very startup phase, they are planning things. What are maybe three to five things that you would say here’s some mindsets or some things to do that were really helpful that maybe you picked up in the podcast or just from your own experience is that can save some people a bunch of time if they are the startup phase?

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Yeah, I would definitely say I think what I had to learn from myself. I didn’t necessarily get those from the podcast. Well, maybe to the [00:28:15.25], but I had to kind of make this mistake for myself before Iearned this lesson, but love the process and not just the outcome. So if your emotions are tied to, ooh, I got three new clients this week or I got no calls in the last month, your mood is not going to average out. It’s going to have peaks and valleys, and so I gave the example of I didn’t start out loving marketing. But now I do really enjoy writing. I take that as kind of my journaling time and I think of it as a way to get back. So looking for ways to love the process and not just the outcome. And part of that is dealing with the inner critic because the day I heard you say on one of your podcast that you didn’t have your first client for six months. That may [00:29:16.00] feel so much better because it took me six months to get my first client and I had always terrible thoughts of I am the [00:29:25.13] therapist and people just came to me before because I gave away free therapy and then that week that I got my first client, I got three clients from three different sources and so obviously you know that six months of startup accumulated and now [00:29:44.18] my days are full. And so that happened in a really short amount of time. But in the meantime, you know, I did notice a lot of critical thoughts. And so with that, you can use CBT and you can challenge the [00:29:59.04] and crack those thought distortions. But for me it was hard because I didn’t have a lot of evidence of, you know… you will have a thriving practice because I haven’t done that yet and I actually felt kind of down on myself – I am a therapist. I should be able to make myself feel better. Right? And sometimes we kind of as therapist can get at ourselves for not being perfect basically. And so what ended up working better during that phase was accepting me inner critic, and practicing. Okay, there is a critical thought, you know. You are feeling scared. This isn’t working out quite the way you wanted to yet. There goes one of his thoughts again. And that really brings up mindfulness again because when you think about the difference between pain and suffering, pain is something that’s a fact of life and suffering is something we do, is a reaction to the pain. So you are going to have pain starting out a private practice. You partner might notice that you’re little bit more grumpy, might feel a pinch financially. [00:31:10.11] happen, and so just kind of noticed your inner critic as it comes up. And you can either challenge it or you can accept it. And then boundaries kind of go along with that. So having really good external boundaries. You talk about this all the time, but don’t take cases that are not for you out of desperation. I remember meeting someone that I would have been really excited to work with who had been first client, that she was a friend of a friend who wasn’t appropriate. But I definitely felt that pull of like, “oooh” you know. {I couldn’t work with her [00:31:50.04], but you have to keep really ,really good on external boundaries. And then of course internal boundaries is kind of how you treat yourself, and you know turning your phone off at night, and…

Joe Sanok: Turning your brain off and you are with people that you love.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Yes, yes.

Joe Sanok: Over the years, Christina and I have had to kind of figure out how best to do that because I’m such an ideas-person that you know will be driving to thanksgiving and I’ll be like, “oh my gosh, I could do this, I could do this. Now, now it will be like, okay, I have an idea. Do you want to hear about it? And she will be like, okay, but just five minutes.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: [LAUGH] That’s great.

Joe Sanok: Or she will say, Can I poke holes in it? And it’s like, okay. Yes.

Anna Lindberg Cedar:[00:32:31.19] my new idea?

Joe Sanok: [LAUGH] Right. But I think that those that are around us are going to get sick appearing about our business and if we are not asking for permission to share about that, then you know, you just don’t want your business to take over because it’s easy when you are excited about something, especially when you have done really difficult work that … your non-profit work [00:32:53.06] did that for years. And there’s part of it usually people say, “I love the work itself.” But I hate the policy or I hate the infrastructure. There is so much about that this is just draining that doesn’t often feel like it serves the purpose of what the non-profit’s doing that then when you finally earn your own practice – you didn’t know you might be your own boss, you’re like, well, this is pretty sweet to be my own boss. And so when you are so excited about what you’re doing, it’s easy to kind of flood those around you with your excitement, that you don’t always want to hear it.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Yeah. Which is why the other kind of [00:33:26.17], the other tip is getting support. Right? Make sure that you have professional consultation group that you have. We need to destigmatize therapy and as therapist say we as therapist need to get our own professional support, definitely family support, like you are saying kind of ask your partner’s consent before just dumping on them about your day or your new idea. And self-care is a great idea, but it’s really not a perfect term because need to take care of each other, And so I think therapists are definitely vulnerable to that of… We have all skills and we can do it all, but looking for ways to include other people in our process and be taken care of as well.

[CONCLUSION] Joe Sanok: Yeah, a couple tools for people that are listening. If you are starting a practice and have it signed up, we have practice of the There’s a 28-step check list. You also get some video walk through and paced out emails that will help you starting a practice . It’s all free and then also something new that we are launching in 2018, that’s called the next level practice and it’s a community, it’s trainings and it’s also feedback. And so we are helping people in starting a practice and so if you want to get invitation for that, we are launching cohorts kind of one at a time, and so you have to have an invitation to get into each cohort. That’s over at Anna, if every practice owner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Aha, just I would want you to always include burnout prevention on your checklist because if your kind of marker for satisfaction is I got everything [00:35:16.11] was done, the reality is you would probably always have 20% on your to do list that you don’t get done and you are going to have to find a way to come to terms with that. And so please make sure that burnout prevention is at the top of your list, even if that’s five minutes a day, but it should be part of your business plan.

Joe Sanok: Awesome. And if people want to connect with you, connect with your work, what’s the best way for them to connect with you.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: I would love to connect with people, You can reach me, probably the best way is, A-N-N-A. Cedar just like the tree. You can email me there, but of course I am on Twitter @annacedar. I am on Facebook, LinkedIn, medium. All those good places and I [00:36:01.29] have a little giveaway freer listers of the burnout prevention starter kit.

Joe Sanok: Yeah, we’ll have that over. I think we are going to put that over at the podcast show notes. Was that what we decided on?

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Sure. [00:36:15.15].

Joe Sanok: Yeah. It’s so cool. So you can head on over there to if you just go to, you will see Anna’s episode right on the main page here. And if are listening to this in the future, just click on Listen to the podcast. You can hunt down Anna’s show notes there. We will have links to like the kipp app when it links to her website and all sorts of other stuff from the episode there. Tell us little bit about the give away.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: You are going to find other podcast listen to you about burnout prevention tips. You are going to find to find grounding exercises for stress relief and other great tools like apps [00:36:54.08], good productivity tools all that good stuff.

Joe Sanok: Awesome. Well, Anna thanks so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: Thank you Joe. It’s a pleasure.

Joe Sanok: All right. Have a great day.

Anna Lindberg Cedar: You too.


Joe Sanok: Well, if you want to continue to rock out private practice, just like Anna, make sure you head on over to www.practiceofthepractice/resources. We have all of our free giveaways there – e-books, info-graphics, checklist. Everything you need for your stage of practice and we are going to keep putting more there for you. Next week, we have Melissa Dohse. Now, what’s really cool about next week is she reached out to me. She listened to the podcast. She did all the things that we said, and you know hyper fast way she went from starting to having a waiting list in nine weeks and she said, hey, what if did a consulting call as a podcast episode. I felt, you know what, this is someone that’s put a lot of time into listening, growing your practice. So next week, she is going to talk about her practice. We are also going to have a bit of a consulting call to give you sort of a behind the scenes look at some of the consulting that I do. So tune into that and I set next week , but actually we are launching these five fierce females twice a week so can get twice so we can get all the [00:38:16.02] February and actually we are going to have a bonus sixth person in early March. So I will tell you more about her at the end of the series. Talk to you soon. Thanks for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have a great day.


This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It’s given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guest are rendering any legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.

[MUSIC] [END OF PODCAST 00:38:52.06]

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