Are you using online marketing? What is a funnel? How can you build funnels to get more clients?
In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks to Joel Louis about building amazing funnels and how you can do this in your own business.
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Meet Joel Louis
Joel (pronounced Joe-EL) Louis, founder, and CEO of Integrator and Co., a digital marketing agency that helps experts reach more people, scale their business, and increase online sales. Joel and his team specialize in funnel strategy, funnel design, funnel repair, and funnel building.
In addition to generating millions of dollars and thousands of leads for his clients, Joel is a father of three and is passionate about the intersection of fatherhood and entrepreneurship.
Click here to access free resources from Joel.
In This Podcast
- Definitions of some essential terms
- Building a funnel – using Podcast Launch School as an example
- Finding new leads for online programs
Definitions of some essential terms
Businesses have sales and marketing, which are two different things. If your marketing is done right, your sales will be easier. There’s a big difference between someone who has been referred to you versus a cold lead or cold prospect. A funnel, if done right, will handle the marketing side of your business making the sales side significantly easier, “warming-up” the client, and establishing the “know, like, and trust” element. A funnel helps the buyer’s journey by taking them from unaware to fully aware e.g. unaware of their problem to fully aware of their problem; unaware of your solution to fully aware of your solution.
A value ladder says that you know your audience has multiple challenges and you have the skillset, knowledge, and expertise to help them with each one but you’re not going to try and sell them everything all at once.
- Give them some value
- Give them some results
- Move them from one phase to the next and then the next, moving them up your value ladder
Beachbody has multiple things in their value ladder. You can just use their supplements, you can just do their workout program, you can do the supplements and the workout program, or you could become a Beachbody coach. Each of these has a different price point as they move you up their value ladder and each of those things on the value ladder has a funnel.
Once someone takes an action, there are things that are automatically happening behind the scenes e.g. Nurturing sequences like emails that go out. If done right, you can automate things where it is personable, where you’re building “know, like, and trust”. Automation can include a number of things including emails, text messages, messenger bots, a number of things that build the relationship that moves a person from one thing to the next on your value ladder.
You want to create a unique offer that differentiates you from your competitors. The offer usually consists of the main thing and then you bolt onto it other aspects of it that will help with the differentiation.
You could have a DIY program/E-course where the client consumes everything online themselves. If your clients struggle with accountability, you can bolt on some coaching, accountability, a private Facebook group, different things that help them get the results that they need.
Someone who is completely unaware of who you are, the services that you offer, the results that you have gotten, etc. (Traffic = people)
Your current audience, Facebook followers, people who are aware of you, etc.
People who are already engaging with you
E.g. You do 100 sales calls and you convert 10 people into clients, your conversion rate is 10%.
Building a funnel – using Podcast Launch School as an example
Podcast Launch School has a value ladder that starts with the free offering. Joe then offers to help people launch their own podcasts and build their brand by creating content that they can put on their sites which will get the SEO (Search Engine Optimization) so that they are more visible to their local community. After the free offering, Joe can then offer the Podcast Launch School which they can do on their own in seven weeks. This will work well for the people who are tech-savvy and can do it themselves, or who aren’t willing to make a bigger investment yet. Then there are others who don’t want to do it themselves or don’t have the time for the course, they can opt for the “Done for You” option which is another step up on the value ladder.
Joel suggests that Joe could add a middle rung in his value ladder, perhaps a “Done with You” option, where clients could do most themselves but they can get help along the way and have support in the form of a private community for example. The core offer is the seven modules, DIY, self-paced E-course on Teachable.
Now you have to think about what you want to add on to it to differentiate it from the other podcast schools out there. Think about the one false belief that people might have about your program and then create a unique bonus that you add on that’s going to address that thing. E.g. The client doesn’t have seven weeks, it’s too long for them, they don’t think that they can be consistent enough, etc. Once you’ve addressed that, then they will have internal false believes e.g. I need accountability, I don’t have the time – things that come up that they know because they have signed up for programs before that they haven’t followed through with. Address these with another added bonus. Then, lastly, there are external false beliefs e.g. I don’t have the right equipment, I don’t have the space to record a good quality podcast, etc. – Offer them a cheat sheet/resource to help them through these problems. This is another thing that you can add on to your core program to make it a complete offer.
Finding new leads for online programs
You have to be willing to invest. Ideally, you need to start with your “warm” leads/traffic (email list, Facebook followers, etc.) because when you build a funnel, you need to test out the multiple moving parts of it on your warm audience – the people who know, like, and trust you already. You want to take them through the funnel before you turn on the cold traffic and before you start with the ad spend as the conversion rate is going to decline when you turn on the cold traffic.
Everything with the funnel is the stuff that is done offline in the real world but you are bringing it online. You are automating it so that you can drive more cold leads into your world and turning them from cold, to warm, to hot. You do have to make an investment in your marketing. This doesn’t mean that you stop the organic stuff (podcasts, blogs, Facebook Live, etc.) that give you long-term SEO and get people to gravitate to you. But, if you want to turn on a funnel and start getting results then do the funnel and see if it is converting and see what you have to tweak and adjust, but you will have to pay.
- Identify your ideal customer – target them with advertising that’s going to disrupt what they are currently doing on Facebook, Instagram, etc. This ad can be an image or a video (videos do really well right now). It will grab their attention while scrolling, they will stop, read/watch, and then click. The ad must then immediately take them to the first step of the funnel. Don’t direct them to the home page of your website, rather direct them to a streamlined page that takes them to a specific action.
- Offer a webinar (for example) – You get someone who is cold traffic, they click over to your webinar registration page, they see a compelling heading, they see some things that they’re interested in and they sign up. Depending on how long the webinar promotion is, you send some emails where you deliver value to them thus building on the “know, like, and trust” aspect. You then deliver the webinar, giving them tremendous value, amazing content, and you shift their paradigm with regard to how they think about your offer, how it could help their business, and how it could build their brand and authority. At the end of the webinar, you share with them a special offer where you will get that 20 % who will say yes. So, you deliver, you present your offer and then you give them the price. If you have given them tremendous value in the webinar, your offer addresses all of their concerns, and it seems that the value of the offer is greater than what you’re asking for, then you can get as much as a 20% conversion rate.
- Send them straight to your offer.
Click here to access free resources from Joel.
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Meet Joe Sanok
Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.
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This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 465.
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I hope that your June is kicking off… well I guess it’s not kicking off anymore, it’s mid-June already. Hope your June is going well. The Michigan weather report brought to you by Joe Sanok; it’s been a nice warm June for us. Oftentimes, in June, it can be super cold and then the water never really heats up till like August. So, I think this year, it might be more swimmable earlier on. At least that’s the hope; that’s what my daughters want.
I hope you’re doing awesome. You know, this whole pandemic thing for me, has really made me continue to think about how I want to live my life. You know, we’ve been doing a daily walk with the family. Almost every day that we have been in lockdown we have done a daily walk. And rain, we had snow in May. We had lots of rain and just had the umbrellas and played in the water. And just doing that each day as a family has been such a good rhythm, and just realizing how much of our life was spent running here to there. Even just going to the grocery store to pick up one thing compared to, hey, let’s plan ahead a little bit and get a couple weeks of groceries so that we don’t have to spend all this time doing things we don’t want to do. And so, I hope for you, you’re evaluating what you want your life to look like. Because doing counseling, that could be a major part of it. But also, there could be other things like podcasting, public speaking, writing, things outside of the counseling world. And I hope you pursue those. I hope you go after those things.
Today, we’re going to be talking with Joel Louis, who is going to walk us through how to build amazing funnels. And we’re going to talk through some of the nuts and bolts of what a funnel is, why it’s important to think through that process, and I’m really excited for this episode for you. So, without any further ado, here’s Joel.
Well, today on the Practice of the Practice podcast we have Joel Louis, who is the founder and CEO of Integrator and Co., a digital marketing agency that helps experts reach more people, scale their business, and increase online sales. Joel and his team specialize in funnel strategy, funnel design, funnel repair, and funnel building. In addition to generating millions of dollars and thousands of leads for his clients, Joel is a father of three and is passionate about the intersection of fatherhood and entrepreneurship. Welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast, Joel.[JOEL]:
Hey, Joe, thank you for having me. So excited to be on and speak to your audience today. [JOE]:
Yeah. You know, as I looked at your website ahead of time, I was just thinking to myself, oh my gosh, I just want to save this guy all for myself. And I’m really glad that I get more than a free 20-minute consult with you today to just dive into funnels. I think a lot of practitioners that are out there, especially as we’re recording we’re in the middle of this whole Coronavirus thing and hopefully by the time this airs in June or July, hopefully we’re out of this but who knows, but I think what it’s done is people’s antennas now are up for online, because even all my in laws, all my aunts and uncles, we’re doing Zoom calls or different things. A giant societal shift has happened towards online where people in the past would never have thought about doing things online and now are thinking about it.
So, what I’m seeing in practitioners, and this is really the angle I want to take today, is less around the clinical, building client base or online clients, but there’s so many people that have great skills. So, they might be a trauma therapist, they might be anxiety, or couples, or parenting, whatever their specialty is, and they’re realizing, wow, I put all my eggs in the basket of in-person, face-to-face counseling, and now that’s really changed. And so, what can I do to now take these skills that the world really needs, but to offer something online. So, I’d love to just start with… because even the term funnel, for a lot of our audience, they may say, you know, I think I know what that is. I don’t know. Let’s just start with some terms that maybe are just common sense to you and to me, but that maybe our audience hasn’t spent as much time in learning what you know, funnels, ROI, all that sort of stuff that is your regular world. So, what terms would you say are essential to this conversation before we dive in too deep?[JOEL]:
Yeah, so ‘funnel’ is one, and I’ll explain… define that. ‘Value ladder’ is another term. Do you want me to define them as I…? [JOE]:
Yeah, why don’t you do… say funnel and then say what a funnel is, and then maybe value ladder and then say what that is. [JOEL]:
Okay. And I’ll try to use some analogies as well, so people could get a visual of what each one is. So, a funnel is, with any business, there’s marketing, and then there’s sales. Right, and those are two different things. Your marketing, if done right, will make your sales a lot easier. And when I say easier, there’s a difference between, you know, we all experience someone who got referred to your practice versus someone who just walked in or they saw an ad, something that’s cold, and they just came in and trying to convert them over. There’s a difference between those. Referrals are a lot easier than a cold lead, a cold prospect. Okay? A funnel, if done right, will handle that marketing side, meaning it will handle taking that cold prospect and warming them up; it will build that know, like, and trust so that when they go from the marketing end into ready to buy or become a client, they will then be more warmed up. That know, like, and trust will already be established. So that’s what a funnel in a nutshell does. If practitioners have heard of the ‘buyers’ journey’, a funnel will help with the buyers’ journey; take someone from being unaware, to fully aware. Unaware of their problem to fully aware of their problem. Unaware of your solution to fully aware of your solution. So, if done right, the funnel will handle the marketing side with the automation and everything so that the sales side is significantly easier. [JOE]:
That’s the first term. The second term is a ‘value ladder’. Now the value ladder, and this… you may not be here yet, but don’t worry about it if that’s not where you are with your business and what you’re trying to do. The value ladder says, hey, I don’t want to only offer one thing. I don’t want to be the one trick pony. I don’t want to just have all my eggs in one basket. The value ladder says, I know my audience has multiple challenges that they’re trying to address, and I have the skill set, I have the knowledge, I have the expertise, where I can help them with each one of those things, but I’m not going to try to sell them everything all at once. I’m going to first bring them in, give them some value, give them some results, and then I’m going to move them from one phase, to the next phase, to the next phase, which is basically moving them up your value ladder. A good example of this is, I think everyone knows Beachbody, which is a workout program. So, Beachbody, they have multiple things in their value ladder. You could just do their supplement. You could do their workout program, $99 a month, I think, and you get access to all their workouts. You could do their supplements and the workout. You could become a Beachbody coach. So, each one of those, there’s different price points and they’re moving you up their value ladder, because to become a Beachbody coach is a higher investment in that. So that’s an example of like a real-world example. That’s pretty much all online. And then they have Beachbody events, which then you gotta, you know, you’re Paying for the ticket, the conference, you’re flying there. And that’s higher ticket items. So, that’s what the value ladder looks like. And there’s a funnel, if you can envision it, there’s a funnel for each one of those things in the value ladder. Does that make sense, Joe? [JOE]:
Yeah, totally. So then, what other terms do we need to know before we dive in too deep? [JOEL]:
So, I think, you know, I mentioned leads; I think everyone knows what that is. ‘Automation’. So, automation is, when we say automation, it means that there’s things… once someone takes an action, there are things that are automatically happening behind the scenes, like nurturing sequences, which would be like emails that go out. I’m sure your practitioners have opted in for something and you receive those emails that go out, and I know you may have had some bad experiences with emails that just doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t fit. It just seems so cold. That’s not what I’m talking about; what I’m talking about, if done right, you could actually automate things where it’s personable, where you’re building that know, like, and trust. You’re not spamming people, and the automation could include emails, it could include text messages, it could include messenger bots, which is the Facebook messages that are automatically popping up on Facebook. So, it could include a number of things, whatever it takes to build that relationship and move that person from one thing, to next thing, to next thing in your value ladder. So that’s another aspect. And so, hopefully that makes sense. I think those are some of the key terms there. [JOE]:
So, let’s say someone’s starting from scratch. So, they’ve come up with an idea; maybe it’s an E-book or an E-course. They maybe even have a podcast that’s getting some audience building. So, maybe they’re great at, I don’t know, let’s just say trauma work, and they want to create something that helps people deal with their trauma. When you sit down with someone, what are some of the first questions you ask them to start to formulate what the plan should be for their funnel? [JOEL]:
Yeah, that’s a great question, Joe. And this will be… as you were talking, I was thinking about one more term, and that term is ‘offer’, and this is going to answer the question as well. And usually, this is the first question I would ask is, what is your offer? Because in this day and age, we’ve… hopefully the practitioners have read, or have heard of ‘Red Ocean, Blue Ocean’. Joe, are you familiar with Red Ocean, Blue Ocean? [JOE]:
I am, yeah. Yeah. It’s a great… blue ocean strategy. It’s awesome. [JOEL]:
Right. Exactly. The analogy there, for the listeners, is that the red ocean is, you know, a good example is Netflix. Netflix came out, they were killing the game, right? They were the only service, maybe there were some earlier services that were doing it, but just didn’t nail it. Kind of like MySpace and Facebook. MySpace was first but Facebook ended up being the trillion-dollar company. So, Netflix came out and they were the only streaming service in town. They had a blue ocean; they created this blue ocean because, prior to that, it was blockbusters, it was whatever, you know, Hollywood studios, whatever you would go to get your movies on DVDs. And then Redbox came out somewhere around there. But then Netflix really came out with this streaming option; I think they had DVDs and streaming. And then a few years later, you had things like VUDU that came out, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and now you have… Apple got into the game, and Disney’s in the game. [JOE]:
Oh man, Disney Plus. Our life would be very different if we didn’t have Disney Plus during quarantine. [JOEL]:
Right. Exactly, exactly. So, now it’s becoming a red ocean because now all of those individuals are vying for the same $10 in my pocket for streaming. [JOE]:
And red ocean, meaning, like, all the sharks, they’re trying to find all the food in the same place. So, the analogy is there’s a bunch of blood there because it’s just so competitive. [JOEL]:
Thank you, Joe. Yes, exactly. Now, Disney, they did do something a little bit different. They had an unfair advantage because, besides all those other streaming services where, you know, Netflix over time, they’ve started coming out with their own shows and producing their own series and stuff. And that helped differentiate them. Disney, they said, look, all those shows you grew up on that you love, those Disney shows that we slowly release periodically throughout the year, you’re going to have all of those, day one, boom, my entire catalog, Discovery Channel, Star Wars. So, that’s why when they launched, they had millions of subscribers within a couple of days. So, they created, in their marketplace, because they had all of that, they were able to create a blue ocean; they created something unique and different that other streaming services did not have. So now it became a question of well, do I keep my Netflix, do I keep Hulu? Because Disney, if I have kids, you know, it has all of this stuff here.
So, when we talk about offer, we want to think about, you don’t want to be a commodity where someone could just shop around and just think about, oh, I could go to this or that, or I could just go to YouTube and watch that, to get the information that they need. You want to create a unique offer that differentiates you from your competitors. And that’s usually the first question I ask, is what is your offer? And the offer usually consists of the main thing and then you add on to it; you bolt on to that other aspects of it that is going to help with the differentiation, that’s also going to help with the struggle and the challenges that individuals have. So, for example, you could have a DIY program, that they just consume everything online themselves, or if you know your people struggle with accountability, you bolt on to the main offer so you have the DIY program, they can consume the content, but now you bolt on coaching, you bolt on accountability, you bolt on a private Facebook group, you bolt on these different things that will help them to get the results that they need. Does that make sense, Joe?[JOE]:
Yeah. So, that makes me think of… so, one thing, probably our newest product, is Podcast Launch School. And so, we had spent a lot of time talking to other podcasters about what frustrates them about podcast trainings. And so, we really realized that most trainings start with buy this microphone, use the software, start talking; but the reality is to have a good podcast, you have to understand what’s your goal? Who’s your audience? What’s the psychology of it that you’re using? What are ways that you can structure it to eventually monetize? So, we don’t even talk equipment till module three. And so, our blue ocean was the psychological edge of being trained as a psychologist, having been a podcaster since 2012, and then implementing those launches. And so, I’m wondering, so Podcast Launch School, by the time this airs, will have opened up probably to our beta test group, and then maybe to our affiliates, assuming everything went according to process. Now, what would you suggest? So, there’s this product that’s, you know, the full price is $997; our affiliates, they get $100 discount for their audience. How would you think through this e-course that we’re selling if you were building a funnel for that? [JOEL]:
So, the core offer is the Podcast Launch School, correct? [JOE]:
Correct. And that’s an e-course that’s on Teachable. [JOEL]:
It’s an e-course on Teachable, and then how long is the course? [JOE]:
Yeah, it’s seven modules that, within each module, I want to say it has probably six to ten units. [JOEL]:
Okay. Six to ten units. Okay. Now, is it complete DIY, done? [JOE]:
Yeah. So, we also have Done-For-You services for podcasting that we do everything for people. We don’t have anything between those two at this point. But yeah, it’s all just a Podcast Launch School that they self-pace go through. [JOEL]:
Got it. Okay. So, that’s perfect. So, this is a great example. Thank you for bringing this example up, Joe. And this is also an example of the value ladder. So, what Joe has here is one, this podcast is absolutely free. So, all the practitioners are listening, you’re building the relationship, they’re listening to your episodes. They’re like, wow, if Joe could do this, can I also do this? Then you say, hey, you’ve been listening to my show for quite some time. Are you interested in launching your online business? And hey, we actually have… or start to build your brand. Maybe it’s not even an online business. Start to build your brand, create content, put some stuff out there. So, now you have content that you can actually put on your site to get that SEO so that when someone is looking for your service in your local community, your site will come up because now you’re putting more consistent content on there. And then when they do find your site, they see oh, it has a podcast, and they could listen to you prior to making the decision to come book an appointment, come into your practice. So, that’s a great example of the low end of the value ladder.
Then you say hey, if you want to do what I’m doing, we’re launching Podcast Launch School, correct?[JOE]:
Okay, Podcast Launch School is gonna take you A to Z, from where you are right now to launching your first podcast, in seven weeks. It’s a do-it-yourself program, you could completely do it yourself, and individuals who are tech savvy enough, who feel like hey, I could do this myself or they’re not willing to make a bigger investment, that will work perfectly for them. But then there may be individuals who are like Joe, I just want you to do this for me, I want to get going tomorrow. And so now Joe says, hey, I actually have a ‘do it for you’, a ‘done for you’ program, which is a higher ticket – you don’t have to mention the price – but it’s a higher ticket offer. And we’re gonna actually do it all for you. And you’ll be up and running in two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, whatever it is, we take you through that whole psychological side of it, and then work with your hook and your statement and your, you know, who’s your audience and everything. So that’s your higher ticket. Now, over time, you could, as you realize that as we’re talking, there could be that in between, which is the ‘done with you’. It’s like, hey, we understand that you need some help with this along this journey. We’re not going to give you the complete ‘done for you’, but we’re gonna help you along with it. So, we’re gonna do it with you. And here’s how that looks like. There’s a private community. There’s this. There’s that, and all this kind of stuff, right? And that could be the middle of the value ladder. And so that would be obviously higher than $987, potentially lower than the ‘done for you’ program.
Okay, so now with regards to the question, what do you bolt on to… because obviously there’s other individuals, I won’t mention the names, there’s other individuals who have a Podcast Launch School type program. So, what you would look to include in your offer is okay, so when I think about creating a podcast, what are the internal… one, what’s the first barrier? What’s the first thing that I think of? I want to do this, Joe, and I believe in your program, but like, I’m concerned about this. What’s that first thing that they’re gonna… false belief or the barrier that they’re going to have with regards to your program specifically. It’s like, well, it doesn’t include this, or will it really take seven weeks? Or seven weeks is too long. Right? What is the first thing that they’re going to have – the barriers that they’re gonna have – specifically about your vehicle? Because that’s what it is, your vehicle is going to take them to the top of the mountain. So, we want to think through, what is that false belief that they’re going to have about your program, and then we create a unique bonus that you’re going to bolt on to your program that’s going to address that thing. So, seven weeks, I don’t have seven weeks. That sounds like a lot of time. I don’t know if I could do it. I don’t know if I’m gonna be consistent enough. How long does it take? So, there’s all these kind of like mind [unclear] that comes up with regards to that. And then you want to think about, how do I create something unique that’s going to address that.
Then you want to think about, after you’ve addressed that, then they’re gonna have internal false beliefs. I need accountability. I’m not consistent enough. I don’t have maybe time, right? It’s these things that will come up that they know, because they’ve signed up for programs before and they haven’t followed through. So, you want to address those internal false beliefs or challenges they have with another bonus.
And then the last one is external, right? I don’t have the right equipment. I don’t have the office space to record a good quality podcast. I have too much noise in my background. So, what do you give them to say, look, you don’t need to… you can record this in your bathroom; you can record this… here’s a cheat sheet. Here’s a resource that shows you how, you could actually probably in your community, you could go rent a space to record your podcasts. Look for co-working spaces that offer this. So, now you give them a resource, a list of things that shows like, hey, when I first launched my podcast I was in my home, there was too much noise, the kids in the background. Don’t worry about it, I created a resource list of where you could go, what you could do, how to create a soundproof… how to soundproof your office, or whatever, so that you could record high quality podcast episodes. Right, so those are the things that you could potentially bolt into the offer to make it… you bolt to your core offer, your core program, to make it a complete offer. Does that make sense?[JOE]:
Ah, yeah. I feel like I just got so much great content and ideas for Podcast Launch School and, those of you listening, I hope you’re thinking through your own ideas. So, if you have an idea of an e-course, or a podcast, or an e-book, that you hear what Joel is saying and apply it to your own world because I’m just being selfish right now and just picking Joel’s brain.
So, then what are some ways that… let’s back up a bit. So, someone has an e-course like Podcast Launch School, now we’ve developed all that. Let’s talk lead generation from new people. It’s one thing if I get my audience to sign up, but that’s, you know, that’s growing at a certain percentage, and I’m not… that’s not doubling or tripling every month. So, how do we find new leads for online programs?[JOEL]:
Yeah, it’s pay to play right. So, this day and age with Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, you do have to… you have to be willing to invest. But what I say is that if you can start with warm leads, so warm traffic, so your email list or if you already have a Facebook profile, a Facebook business page and you have individuals who’ve been following you on Facebook, those kind of things you want to ideally start there. If you have that, that would be great. Because then, when you build a funnel, you do need to test out the funnel because like I mentioned, there’s multiple moving parts to it. There’s multiple facets to it. There’s automation. You want to see how your warm audience – and when I say warm, it’s people who know and trust you a bit. They’ve already opted into something, they’ve already been following you, they’ve been listening to your podcasts, those kind of things. And you want to take them through the funnel first before you turn on that cold traffic, before you start with the ad spend because your conversion rate is going to decline when you turn on cold traffic. Okay? Even if you have… [JOE]:
Break that down for us. So, what does that mean to someone who’s never heard some of those terms before? [JOEL]:
Oh, I’m sorry. [JOE]:
That’s okay. [JOEL]:
Which ones, the conversion rate? [JOE]:
Yeah. So, the conversion rate, turning cold, kind of break that down a little bit for us. [JOEL]:
Okay. So, cold traffic is someone who is completely unaware of who you are, the services that you provide, your results that you’ve gotten. They may already have a specific pain; they may already be aware of the problem that they’re trying to solve. Actually, when you’re launching a funnel in the beginning, there’s that low hanging fruit, which is the individuals who are ready, they’re completely aware of their problem. They potentially even have already been searching, Google searching for solutions, or they’ve tried other solutions. So, in this case, like launching a podcast, maybe they’ve already done YouTube videos and all that kind of stuff. So, they are completely aware. They’re just trying to find the right solution. That’s the best traffic if you could tap into that. And traffic is people. When I use the term traffic, I’m talking about individuals who are out in the world who are just doing their thing, but they have a problem, a pain that they’re trying to solve. And you’re trying to get their attention and get them to flow to you, flow through your funnel. And that’s why we use the term traffic. So cold is they’re not aware of you at all. They’re not aware of your solution. Whereas warm is they are aware of you. They’ve heard about you on a podcast, they may be opting in for e-book, they maybe visited your website, maybe they’ve liked your Facebook business page, that’s kind of warm audience. And then hot audience is someone who has already engaged with you. They’ve already potentially purchased something from you. Maybe they’ve listened to your podcast and they’ve commented a number of times. Maybe they’ve read a couple of your blog posts and they’ve commented a number of times. Those are kind of the hotter audience. They’re on your list, they’ve opted in for multiple things. That would be considered a hot audience. You’ve built that know, like, and trust.
In terms of conversions is, you know, simple. It’s just a number, right? So, if you’re doing sales calls right now, let’s say you do 100 sales calls and you convert 10 people, then your conversion rate is 10%. Right? So that’s what conversions are. And just like in real world, everything we talking about with funnel, all of this is stuff that is done in the real world. You just take an offline world, and you’re just bringing it online. So every aspect of everything I’m mentioning now, is stuff that is done offline, but we’re just bringing it online, we’re automating it, so that you could drive more, you know, even while you’re sleeping, you’re driving those cold leads, and you’re pulling them into your world and turning them from cold to warm to hot.[JOE]:
Yeah, and I think that’s an important point, that in the real world, we go through this naturally, I did a presentation a while back where I talked about how my wife, Christina, and I got married. And so, you think about it, there are plenty of women in the world that did not know that Joe Sanok existed. And so, a smaller group, they know me. And then an even smaller group likes me. And then an even smaller group trusts me. And then there is that one person that I partnered with. And so, you know, it’s a natural know, like, and trust where you’re whittling down, and that’s the funnel side of it, that you want people to opt out, you want… If it was like the bachelor where he has 40 or 50 women that know, like, and trust him, that’s a much harder decision. And so, the same is true in business where you want people to opt out and say, oh, this person isn’t for me, this business isn’t for me, that’s not the kind of person I want to work with. That’s almost as important as having the right people in the funnel as well. And so, I’m glad you brought it back to the real world because we go through this in regards to warm leads, cold leads, all of that anyway, we just don’t maybe name it all of that. [JOEL]:
Exactly. Exactly. [JOE]:
The strategy of paying to play, of building it up. So, take us through a little bit of that as we get towards the end of the show, because I think that’s something that a lot of therapists, or online consultants, or counselors that then launch an e-course, they feel like, oh, I shouldn’t have to pay. I should just be so awesome that people want to come here. But the reality is, that’s not really how the world is right now. Right? [JOEL]:
No, no. And again, offline, online. Offline: billboards, newspaper, radio, those things still exist. People are still… you know, Superbowl ads, people are still spending tons of money to do the offline marketing, Online: Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Tiktok, depending on who is your audience, right? And you do have to make an investment. Now, it doesn’t mean that you stop the organic stuff. It doesn’t mean you stop doing the podcast, the Facebook Live, there’s things you could do, blog posting, there’s things you could do for that organic, long term SEO, to get people to gravitate to you. But if you want to turn on a funnel, start getting results right away, traffic, [unclear] so you can see if the funnel is converting, to see what you have to tweak and adjust, then you do have to pay.
Now, what that looks like is, without getting into too much technical stuff, there’s a couple ways in terms of paying: one is you identify who is my ideal customer. So, let’s say for example, my ideal customer are people who like Oprah Winfrey. I’m just gonna use that as a very simple example. We’re going to target individuals who like Oprah Winfrey, and then we’re going to put some advertisement in front of them, an advertisement that’s going to disrupt what they’re currently doing on Facebook, Instagram on the different platforms. And that ad could be image, it could be video – videos do really well right now. It’s gonna grab their attention as they’re scrolling through their news feed, and then it’s gonna get them to stop, read, watch, and then click on that ad. And then from that ad, it immediately takes them… once they take that action, it takes them right to the first step of the funnel.
Now you may be thinking, well I already do that, and I drive traffic to my website. Yes, that’s a big mistake. Because driving traffic to your website, if you’ve ever visited someone website, before you even scroll down, before you even make the first scroll down on someone’s website, how many things can you potentially click on? A whole bunch of things most likely, you have the follow me on Facebook, Twitter, you got the headers, you know, Contact, About, all this kind of stuff. Every single one of those things is a call to action; you’re trying to get your… every single one of these things is giving them something to click on, which is, in essence, a distraction from the ultimate goal that you want them to take is basically to contact you.
So, with a funnel, you would run the ads to a funnel which is a streamlined page, where everything on that page is geared towards them taking a specific action. So, in your case, Joe, what I would recommend is, for like a $997 offer, a great way to start is to do webinars, because webinars is your… And again, going back to my low hanging fruit analogy, when we think about the way someone is on their journey in terms of wanting to get results. You want to do a webinar – a webinar is a great way, a great funnel to use because you’re selling a $997 offer. And a webinar is what I call a trifecta because it helps to get someone who’s on Facebook, who’s cold traffic, click over to your webinar registration page, they see a compelling headline, they see a compelling sub headline, they see these three things, four things, five things that you’re going to share with them, that they’re interested in, and maybe a video of you explaining a little bit, and then they register, right? It’s a very simple, it’s not a very high ask, it’s not a big ask, they register for the webinar, you send them over a couple or three days, five days, depending on how long the webinar promotion is, you send them a couple of emails that you deliver value to them.
So, you’re already building that know, like, and trust over those three to five days while they wait for the webinar. You deliver a live webinar for 45 minutes, you give them tremendous value, give them amazing content, you shift their paradigm with regard to how they think about podcasting, and how it could help their business and how it could build their brand and their authority. And then at the end of those 45 minutes, you say, hey, do you mind if I share with you a special offer that I created for you specifically? And that’s where you get those 20% of those people that’s gonna like say yes to this, right? So, then you deliver, you present your offer, and you give them the price. And again, the offer, right, and like I mentioned, the offer is going to include… the main thing is going to include those bolt-on items that’s going to address their false beliefs about the vehicle about the internal, the external, and you then reveal the price to them.
If you gave them tremendous value throughout the webinar, and if your offer addresses all of their concerns, and it seems like the value of the offer is greater than what you’re asking, then you’re going to get a 5, 10, 15, even 20% conversion rate from the webinar. And for $997 you could send them right to the ‘buy now’. You don’t necessarily need to do a sales call or anything like that. And that would be what I would recommend to start, if you’re going after that low hanging fruit. Eventually you’re going to tap out the low hanging fruit, and you’re going to need to go after the individuals who are not aware about podcasting, who are not aware of, they could do different things to build their authority, their… They’re not aware that they’re being left behind because other practitioners are doing podcasting and they’re not. So, you have to then educate those people on like, hey, podcasting is a thing. And podcasting is actually better than blogging. And so, now you have to create a funnel that’s going to warm those individuals up before you take them into your webinar, and then try to convert them on the sale. Does that make sense, Joe?[JOE]:
Yeah, that’s so helpful. And I feel like after we’re done with this interview, we got to talk about strategy and come up with some more planning for us. I mean, I feel like we’re 80 to 90% of the way there, but you just gave the last, you know, 5 to 10%. So, Joel, the last question I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? [JOEL]:
What I want them to know, again, considering the time that we’re in, the state of the Union right now, is that there’s a world that exists online. And I have friends who are practitioners, I have friends who are… they work in colleges, they are professors and all this kind of stuff. And there’s this offline world and a lot of people are still in the offline world; they’re aware that there’s the cloud, that you could do certain things online, like do meetings online and those kind of things. But they haven’t spent the time to really tap into that. And with what the current state of the union, a lot of people are getting this rude awakening and they’re now trying to figure these things out. Even the education system, they’re trying to figure this thing out. And I live in the online world. I lived in the offline world. I worked at Intel Corporation for 15 years, senior manager and everything like that. And I understand both, and there is a magical union between the two. You can have a brick and mortar practice. You can have the four walls, but you don’t have to be confined to your four walls, you don’t have to be confined to your 10-mile, 15-mile radius. You have this expertise, you have this knowledge, you have all this education that can deliver tremendous value to people. And you could use online to do that. And it creates another income stream to your business; in some cases, not saying that you have to do this, we’ve had clients who have actually shut down their practice and just gone completely online. It seems scary. It seems technology-based but listen, you’re a practitioner, you went through a lot of schooling to get to where you are right now. You could do this; you could figure it out. There is a way to expand your practice, expand your business, expand what you could bring to your family, the lifestyle that you could bring to your family. And that’s why… you talked at the beginning; I have this whole thing… I’m very passionate about entrepreneurship and fatherhood, because with online, you could now start to build a different life for your family, give your life your family, something more than what you currently providing them. And also, security, because we’ve had a lot of brick and mortar businesses right now that had to shut down, unfortunately, whereas our online clients are still… they’re actually more than thriving. They’re like, crushing it right now. [JOE]:
Yeah. Yeah. So awesome. So, if people want to connect with you, you also have a free resource that you’re giving away. Maybe talk a little bit about that and how people can access it. [JOEL]:
Yeah, and Joe, thank you. So, I tried to cover… there’s only so much you could cover in these… [JOE]:
I know, we could go forever. [JOEL]:
We could go forever. There is a knowledge… there’s terminologies and everything like that, just like you have in your… as a practitioner, you have terminologies. So, what I have is on this resource, you go to integratorandco.com/practice. So, integratorandco.com/practice, and on there I have a couple of resources that go deeper into everything that we covered today. It talks about the value ladder, it talks about funnels, it talks about… I didn’t share with you the buyers’ GPS, which is my framework where we expanded on the buyers’ journey. And when you talk about, Joe, about pushing certain people away, in terms of like, some people are not a good fit, that’s what the buyer GPS includes as well. And it’s more three dimensional instead of the one-dimensional buyers’ journey. So, we have all those resources on that page and practitioners could go there and it’s completely free and they could consume that information and learn more about what this whole thing looks like. [JOE]:
Awesome. And we will have links to that in the show notes. Joel, thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast. [JOEL]:
You’re very welcome, Joe. Thank you for having me. It was a great conversation. [JOE]:
So what action are you going to take around funnel building today? I hope that you took some good notes and that you’re going to really walk through it. If you haven’t, the show notes have a ton of great notes. We have Sam who’s going through every single podcast and writing up the notes for you, and we’re having them transcribed. So, if you… excuse me, that burp came out of nowhere, not gonna edit that out. That’s super gross. But, if you missed anything, head on over to the show notes on practiceofthepractice.com. Just click on the podcast, you’ll see the notes there. For each episode, we have it transcribed so you can even read through things that maybe you missed; have all the resources there.
Also, thanks to TherapyNotes. They have been such an amazing sponsor for us. If you go over to therapynotes.com, use promo code JOE, we get two months for free, as well they also have a telehealth platform now as part of it, which is so exciting, we’ve really wanted that; we’ve advocated for that for you for a while. And if you’re a Next Level Practice member you get six months for free; all you have to do is when you sign up, just forward that receipt to me, and I will connect you with their head of marketing and they will give you the six months for free, which is so awesome that they do that. We negotiate a ton of deals for our Next Level Practice members – things like extra discounts for Brighter Vision, for Social Genie, for TherapyNotes, so that not only are you getting great help with Next Level Practice, but you’re also then being able to get great deals. And we oftentimes say that we want the best deal that you offer, and TherapyNotes has offered that to our members with Next Level Practice.
So, also, we do have a cohort opening in August. If you aren’t in Next Level Practice and you’re starting a practice, go on over to practiceofthepractice.com/invite, and you can get the invite because we’re gonna be launching that in August and you don’t want to miss that.
So, thanks for letting me into your ears and your brain. Have a great day. Bye.
Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. We really like it. This podcast is designed to provide accurate, authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.