Caleb Breakey Writes A Lot of Books and So Can You | PoP 276

Caleb Breakey writes a lot of books and so can you

Have you ever wanted to write and publish a book? Should you get a ghost writer or write it yourself? If you do opt for a ghost writer, how much does that cost?

In this episode, Joe Sanok speaks with Caleb Breakey about writing books.

Podcast Sponsor

If you’re thinking of starting a practice, or you’re making less than $40 000 a year in your practice, you have to be on my email list about starting a practice! You’re going to get a 20-step checklist on exactly what to do in your first year of practice. You’re going to get videos that will walk you through how to get your ideal client, and also how to evaluate the local market. As well, you’re going to get paste out emails on how to continue to grow. And, at the end of that series, I’m going to invite you to go over to my growth and scaling phase email course, where you’re going to be able to learn how to grow past that $40 000 up to that six-figure practice. Would love for you to join over at

Meet Caleb Breakey

Caleb Breakey is one of the nation’s leading Book Directors. His accolades include:

  • Lead Book Director of and
  • Author of Called to Stay (Amazon #1 bestseller in Church Growth and ECPA Christian Book Award finalist) and Dating Like Airplanes (#10 bestseller in Relationships)
  • Winner of the prestigious Genesis Contest founded by American Christian Fiction Writers
  • Graduate of the Christian Writers Guild’s highest level
  • Student of Christian writing giants Jerry B. Jenkins (Left Behind) and Ted Dekker (Circle Series)
  • Teacher at all of the major Christian writing conferences across the nation
  • Award-winning journalist and interviewer of numerous star athletes and musicians, including Derek Jeter, Roger Clemons, David Ortiz, Alex Rodriguez, Emerson Drive, and Casting Crowns.

Caleb Breakey’s Story

Caleb has always loved to write. From a young age, he was the one that wrote the family newsletters etc. He then studied journalism at University and went into sports journalism. After about two years, he felt a calling to go into books.

In This Podcast


In this podcast, Joe Sanok speaks with Caleb Breakey about writing books. From things to consider before deciding to take this on to how to market it and what to include in each chapter. While writing a book is a big commitment, it can do wonders in growing in your practice! Writing e-books can help with SEO and position you as an expert in your field.

Things to Consider Before Writing a Book

  • It’s a hard journey
  • It requires guidance through every process
  • You need to market (online)
  • Research in order to ensure value is provided through your book
  • Identify your ideal reader
  • Figure out a writing system

97% of all books are going to sell 5000 or less.

Points to Include in Each Chapter

  1. Snatch attention
  2. Simplify point
  3. Show why this is important
  4. Give proof of concept
  5. Articulate reader’s questions
  6. Answer ‘how we can apply this to our lives?’
  7. Inspire to keep reading

Writing a book is about building a relationship with your ideal client.

Useful Links:

Meet Joe Sanok

private practice consultantJoe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.






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Podcast Transcription

File: PoP 276 Caleb Breaky Writes A Lot of Books and So Can You
Duration: 0:36:15:00

[START] Joe Sanok: If you are thinking about starting a practice or you are making less than $40,000 a year in your practice, you have to be on my email list about starting a practice. You’re going to get a 28-step checklist and exactly what to do in your first year of practice. You are going to get videos that will walk you through how to find your ideal client and also how to evaluate the local market as well you are going to get paced out emails on how to continue to grow. And at the end of that series, I am going to invite you to go over to my growth and scaling phase emails of course where you are going to be learn how do you grow past that $40,000 up to that six-figure practice. We would love you to join that over at


This is the Practice of the Practice Podcast with Joe Sanok, session #276.

[MUSIC] [INTRODUCTION] Joe Sanok: Welcome to the Practice of the Practice Podcast. I am Joe Sanok, here live in the radio center two building at Practice of the Practice World Headquarters in beautiful downtown Traverse City. If you are brand new to this podcast, I want to thank you. I have heard from a bunch of grad students lately. Especially on the west coast. They have been listening big shoutout to the west coast, folks. There is some new practice owners in the New York area and along the east coast that have reached out to me and said that they were listening. I would guess some people that have returned back that didn’t listen for a while and jumped in for some of these series. I am just so thrilled that you guys are here that you take time to listen to these interviews and you implement. It’s just so exciting for me for to hear about what you do with this information. Today, we are talking all about writing a book, publishing a book, whether or not to have a ghostwriter and kind of what that costs and what to look at when you are doing that. And you know a couple of years ago, I wrote my first book called “Mental Wellness Parenting,” And I have a counseling practice here in Traverse City. It’s a group practice called the Mental Wellness Counseling. And so I wrote this book Mental Wellness Parenting, brought together some old blog posts, made some new content, took some of the bullet points from when I have been in the radio, did a whole book launch at a local book store, had a band play, had wine and food, and it was a great way to get exposure for Mental Wellness Counseling. And you know, since then, I have done a bunch of e-books. I think we are up to 8 or 9 on Amazon. And I have written them in a few different ways. “Practice of the Practice,” that’s by far the best seller, that’s the one that really walks people through how to start a practice. But that’s one I sat down. I typed everything out. I didn’t do any reuse of blog post. It was the most work by far. But since then I have created some handbooks that are like the counseling companion which is for kind of work books for people to use in session. And then earlier this year I did a webinar series called “Practice Essentials,” in July and August, and we took the transcripts from those, had then transcribed. And then Sam, my chief marketing officer, she made it look like a beautiful e-book. They are just beautifully designed by Sam. And we put those up on Amazon and so now if you go to my Amazon author page, you see 8 or 9 books and you can also do so many other things with your Amazon author page where you can have updated headshots in there. You can add videos to it. You can link it to your feed from your blog over at my Mental Wellness Counseling or Practice of the Practice. So that’s bit into Amazon. So all of this helps with your SEO. It helps with you positioning yourself as the expert. It also helps just kind of get your name out there little bit more. I can look at my stats and without putting any really effort into marketing those books, I can see overtime that there have been times that it has been in the top thousand e-books for business, which is crazy. There’s millions of books on Amazon. And so the exposure that you can get totally free on this huge website where people are searching all the time having a book is one of the best ways to promote yourself in new and different and national ways. So today, I am so excited that Caleb is going to walk us through that process. He is going to talk about whether or not you should have a ghostwriter, whether or not you should write your own book. How to publish it. Everything that goes around that. So without any further ado, I give you Caleb Breaky.


Joe Sanok: Well, today on the Practice of the Practice Podcast, we have Caleb Breaky and he is the founder and CEO of, the premier ghostwriting agency for thought leaders. He has collaborated on books and writing projects with six seven and eight figure earners and aims to broadcast his client message to the world and double their revenue in less than 24 hours of their time. Caleb, welcome to the Practice of the Practice Podcast.

Caleb Breaky: Thanks you so much for having me, Joe. This is going to be a lot of fun (crosstalk) [00:05:02.05]…

Joe Sanok: Oh yeah.

Caleb Breaky: [00:05:03.08] your listeners.

Joe Sanok: Well, I love interviewing people that do interesting things that aren’t just in the private practice world. They can really, genuinely help the audience that’s listening and having you be a ghostwriter, a guy that understands the craft of writing. Takes us back to how did you get into writing?

Caleb Breaky: Ha man! So I was the kid who at 12 or 11… you know, I would write the family newsletters. I would write parodies of… you know, my brothers played on a softball team. I would write a newsletter about the softball team. I liked to write, and the other thing is I wasn’t very good at too many things. And so I really clung to writing. No, I was not very good at math. I wasn’t good at these other things. So I was like, hey, writing is something that I can do. So I really gravitated toward it. And from there, you know, I went and decided, well, do the business and journalism in college, and took one marketing class and found out that wasn’t for me which is kind of ironic because I do a lot of it now. But then I got my journalism degree from Western Washington University, went into sports journalism, and after about two years felt a calling to move into books.

Joe Sanok: Wow! Yeah, so, it’s so interesting how the things that we are into as kids often times play out into our adult career. I have a six-year-old and a three-year-old. I am just seeing what they are interested in, I’m like how is that going to be their career. You know, it’s just interesting though to look at. So as you switched out of journalism and moved into books, how did that transition happen?

Caleb Breaky: Ho that’s a story! Ah…

Joe Sanok: Good [00:06:39.27] stories.

Caleb Breaky: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So after about… So here’s how and when. In college, I had the ambition – you know, I wanted to be the best that I could be. And one of the ways that you do that in journalism is you apply, you get internships. Most of them even are unpaid, unless you get the big ones. So I sent out 80 applications across the nation to all the big papers, and I ended up landing a great one with So I got to cover the Yankees for a year and that was a really wonderful experience, kind of the height of my journalism career, of just having fun and doing something awesome. But I’m also kind of home buddy. I live in the Pacific Northwest, as we are talking about before we got started, and my wife lives here. We are close with her family. Like, “Well, I want a job back home.” And that really limited my options to two jobs. I ended up getting one. But after two years, I had won kind of the awards that I could for the paper [we are at 00:07:31.19], and I am just the type of guy who… I like to challenge myself. I like to continue growing, and I got that itch. I needed to do something more. I never had a ton of confidence growing up. And so this was the start of really just testing that, of kind of taking a leap of faith. And what happened was as I was out covering a game one day and a friend who I hadn’t talked with in months, calls me up to say, hey, I know you are doing journalism. But I know you’ve said, you know, you kind of want to write more, do books, this and that. Well, I’m moving out of this job, that if you took it you could write more. Job doesn’t pay, but you have free room and board, this and that. So I ended up switching from being a journalist to working as a night manager at a retirement home where I made a lot of friends in their 90s for real. And this is like a retirement home where folks are doing really well, don’t need extra help. But… yes, on that coffee every morning with 10 to 12 men who were from 85 to 95 and had come from all different walks of the life. And I of course always love asking questions and so. that was just an amazing experience. But I took that time to start writing and that [00:08:47.05]…

Joe Sanok: I got to pause you before you dive into that because we actually… my wife and I moved into a retirement village also, and so when there is crazy overlaps like this with guests, even though it has nothing to do with what we are talking about, I got to tell you this story. So we lived in this college town, Kalamazoo. And we didn’t like where we were staying. We were right next to these, like, partying people. So we found this retirement village and there was an apartment complex. You didn’t have to be retired. And so my wife and I moved there. But like twice a month they would have like swing dances and pot lucks and they had water aerobics for retired people, and it was awesome. It was right on the edge of the woods and we met all these retired people. So it’s funny that both of our young lives, we were hanging out with a bunch of 80 and 90 year olds (laugh).

Caleb Breaky: You are speaking my language and what a… boy, for listeners out there! What amazing experience that is. I mean we are all headed to old age and I think our society, our western society, we just don’t incorporate enough of that generational mix and it’s really valuable. And so anyway. Little plug there (crosstalk) [00:09:52.26]..

Joe Sanok: Yeah, I am with you because I feel like we… our older generations. We don’t look at it like you have been at life for a long time. So you are probably pretty good at it. You know, in any other field, if someone did something for 30 years and did it really well and survived within it, we would be like, you are guru, an expert, but we don’t look at, kind of, our older generation that way and say, you know what, you have lived life. You probably know a thing or two.

Caleb Breaky: Right. And I love the, you know, your mind is so powerful. One of the things that they focused on at this retirement apartments was, you know, life-mindedness, like keep living. And it was amazing. The people who kind of felt, hey, I am getting old, I don’t have much to live for. Well, those are the ones who kinda went downhill faster, but those who would go swing dancing, those who would continue to write speeches, and give talks and go out to the local orchestra. Like you keep living life and your mind and your body keep having that jest for life. And it’s amazing, like how long you live… if you never just call it quits because some people do that. Some people check out thinking that you know life has passed them by, but keep living. Life is full of wonderful things.

Joe Sanok: Yeah. It’s funny. In our first year of marriage, we lived in… it was like a walkout basement. And this older couple was upstairs. They were probably 75 or 80. And I would hear him just like going at on his typewriter and just every night he would hit click, click, click, click, click, and it was like writing his memoir because they had lived this crazy life where in the 60s they had been registering black voters down south and the KKK coming and burning crosses in their front yard, and like they shook their fist at them and just things that you know like that’s not the life that I live in Northern Michigan.

Caleb Breaky: Wow.

Joe Sanok: So I guess that kind of brings us back to writing. So you started writing more while you were working at this retirement home?

Caleb Breaky: Yup. So got my first agent. Landed a two-book deal with [00:11:53.26] in non-fiction. Wrote those books. All along though, I had started in fiction. Non-fiction just kind of came out of an opportunity of meeting the right people at the right conferences. My wife and used that time to really go to a conference every couple of months. We would go to writing conferences and both of us love people… you know, we are both introverts, but we were also [00:12:14.14] people, writers. And so we met a lot of great people, got into the industry, got agents, ended up getting book deals, but we started on fiction. So…

Joe Sanok: So… I am going to pause you a [00:12:27.01] because I have so many questions for you.

Caleb Breaky: (laugh)

Joe Sanok: So when someone’s looking for an agent… I meet so many consulting clients and they say I want to write a book for whatever the reason is. How do you find an agent? Is it worth it to find an agent? And maybe you are going to go there anywhere. But that just seems like something that most people have no idea even how to do.

Caleb Breaky: Yeah. So you have two camps. You have your traditional publishing and then kind of your hybrid self-publishing. Those lines used to be across separate isles. Now they are super close because there just isn’t the same prestige as publishing traditionally. In fact today, and I am just trying to paint a context [00:13:06.28] before actually answering your question.

Joe Sanok: Yeah.

Caleb Breaky: Today there’s going to be more self-published authors making more… new authors making more than $50,000 a year then there will be those who are publishing traditionally. So when it comes to getting an agent, here’s the numbers. See everyone wants to write. And like my agent alone gets something like 200 queries a week I think and he ends up signing maybe 5 or 10 clients a year. So that gives you an idea of like the numbers. So lots of people want to go that route, but at the end of the day, it actually isn’t the smartest route all of the time. Agent takes 15% and what the agent’s job is just to get you in front of publishers. Pitch you stuff. You still have to write your own book. You still have to finish it. All that stuff. They will pitch to the publishers, then you have to get past their publishing board, and the publisher is going to take about 80% your royalty. So you lose about 80% of your royalties. Your agent gets 15 of whatever you make. So you are down to about $1 a book by the time you actually publish traditionally. Whereas you self-publish, and you keep everything minus the cost of like Amazon shipping and handling your book and you know even e-book you get 70% of that instead of traditionally where you might see 35 or 50 or something like that. So when it comes to agents, you can query them or you can meet them at conferences. I definitely recommend you meet agents at conferences.

[THINGS TO CONSIDER BEFORE WRITING A BOOK] Joe Sanok: Okay, so if someone is thinking about writing a book, what are some of things that they should consider when they dive into that process?

Caleb Breaky: So there is… boy, there is lot of [00:14:44.10]. There is so much here that I could go over. But things that you need to consider, one very hard journey. I would tend to read 50 books or so before I ever wrote one. Even for my first contract I wrote 50,000 words, deleted 50,000 words, wrote another 50,000 words because usually your first one, two, three, four books need to go on a drawer because they are just not good. Either you haven’t struck the right voice, you haven’t thought enough about your audience what’s their pain, what’s their need. Am I talking to them in the way that relates to them. There is so much that you need to be coached on through the writing process. And so, yeah, when it comes to writing that’s a big part. The other big part is whether you publish traditionally or self publish, you must do your marketing. Unless you are an A list author, you will get no marketing dollars. You will always be your own best marketer. And so even publishing traditionally, that doesn’t mean you are going to skyrocket in sales, become a best seller. That tends to be the biggest thing that I find people uncomfortable with. They think if they just publish they will be a best seller, but there is a long road to get there. In fact, 97% of all books are going to sell 5000 copies or less. It’s very difficult to get into that top 3%. But you can. The good news is you can. The wonderful thing about being a writer today is that obscurity is no longer an issue. Through online advertising you can reach your ideal readers everyday through paid advertising. So the only thing you need to worry about is providing great value in a book and then setting up a funnel where you can reach your ideal readers and start building a relationship with them.

Joe Sanok: Wow. So I want to get into that marketing side because I think there is a myth that most people think well if i get signed by a traditional publisher, then I’ll be at the front of Barnes and Noble, and I will be put right next to Tony Robbins’ newest book and I will be this big speaker because of that. When people are writing those first couple of books, so you said a lot of times their first few versions are just worth nothing, that you just put in a drawer. What are some, maybe key helpful tips for people during that phase if they are not going to hire a coach and they are not going to hire a ghostwriter, and they want to bootstrap it, what should they do? But then also I would love to hear about getting a coach or getting a ghostwriter. How that can help people get their message out quicker? So maybe start with the bootstrap and then take us into having a professional help you with it.

Caleb Breaky: Yeah… you know if I am bootstrapping it, I would find your writing system… here’s the thing. I would take the time, get away, get to a white board like really think through your book from all angles, specifically your readers. Like who are they, who is the ideal reader who is going to be reading my book. Take them out to coffee. Talk to them about what your book is about. Observe. Are they eyes glazed over? Are they leaning forward with their eyes big? You know, at least the value you are bringing or plan to bring in this book, is it something that your people really are longing for. There’s a need there. There’s a hurt. There’s a pain that you are feeling. And so that’s number one. Number two, like figure out just some sort of simple writing system that helps remind you how to deliver a great content. So I wrote a book for a niche, basically describing the simple writing process that helps communicate your words as powerfully as possible.

[POINTS TO INCLUDE IN EACH CHAPTER] Caleb Breaky: So really I think it comes down to seven things that I like to see in each chapter if you can. One is a snatch our attention. Whether it be a, you know, a quote, a description, a statement that’s shocking, what have you. Snatch our attention right away. If you don’t snatch attention, reader are going to stop. You have to be entertaining or at least engaging. Two, simplify the point. If you can’t say the point of a chapter in a sentence, then it’s too complicated. So make sure you simplify the point. Three, show us why this is important to our lives. If we don’t see the why, then there is no reason to keep reading. Number four, give us proof of concept, you know. Research, anecdotes, stories, data things like that. Sprinkle that throughout. Number five, articulate our questions that we have as readers. Pick the five most diverse readers you have and answer their questions before they even start to think them, because it has the effect of way of filling up your water before you even realize it’s getting empty. And then number six, how can we apply this to our lives. Answer that question [00:19:14.29], show us how. And then finally number seven, inspire us to keep reading. So that’s a general seven point framework that I say hey, at least hit these seven. I mean use it very bendable, bend it, break it, but just try to look and make sure that each one of your chapters has those points in [00:19:29.19]. So that’s how I bootstrap it. Those seven points, and then really thinking through who your reader is.

Joe Sanok: Man! Those seven points I feel like we could stop the interview right now and be like everybody go, take action on that – whether it’s for a book or blog post or podcast. Those seven points are so true to just how we consume information. And as you say that, I think about the people that I really enjoy their books. So people like Malcolm Gladwell or other folks, you know they always seem to have this ratio of about 40% research, 40% story, and then about 20% here’s the practical application, and it just seems like our brains are wired to do exactly what you just took us through that we are interested in that thing that jars us. That we say, oh, my gosh, that’s shocking. Where they are going to go from here. But then on the other side if it’s too complex and too out there, not a simple enough point, it’s just we are not going to stick with it either as… I love how you paint that out for us.

Caleb Breaky: Yeah. I was watching Shark Tank last night and it was this, this guy was pitching something called Hater and I was like what in the world is Hater. And it’s a dating app. And the statement he made was that some study show that people stay on love longer if they both hate the same thing. And it was crazy, like shocking. I’m like that is a hook. Some of our clients like one of our clients who is a Proctor and Gamble kind of their corporate story teller. His opening line was like I have met a business problem that I haven’t been able to solve with the plot of Star Wars. Another client of ours was a Disney apprentice and she helps practices – chiropractors, doctors, dentists – like bring the Disney values of just like warmness and treating people as guests into those practices. So those are hooks. Those are things that stand out, remember. And that’s a big part of a bootstrapping it. Like, what is your position, what’s your hook, what’s so different that you [00:21:28.03]. Remember there is nothing new under the Sun. You are not going to come up with some astrophysics, you know, crazy idea. It’s probably been done. So it all comes down to your unique voice and positioning yourself in any unique way as well.

[HIRING A GHOSTWRITER] Joe Sanok: That’s so awesome. So if you are hiring a coach or ghostwriter – ha, like most of us have never even considered that, why should we consider hiring a coach or a ghostwriter, and then take us through the process of what a ghostwriter will walk us through.

Caleb Breaky: Well, here’s what I say. There’s spiritual ghostwriting where you go, hey, I have an idea. Go write it for me. That is one way you can do. That’s not what, say, my company does. We say when you hire us, you are not hiring a person, but a process. And you’re given an idea of our process. Why people should hire? It’s because it’s going to take you about 10 years to figure everything out, to grow yourself as a writer, to figure out all the different pieces. That you can do, you can do [00:22:29.00] for sure, but what we do is just for instance, say you have an idea and you are like ready to write it. Most clients come to us after trying to write a first chapter, never get to it. It drags on for three or four years. People telling they want to write a book. They never do. What we do is we have tried to create a low touch process to change the game, to be the ones who can write the book for those who don’t have the time to put their life on pause to write it. And [00:22:56.28] who need to write a book because they are doing great things in the world and they are so busy providing value that they are not going to have time to put their life on pause to not only learn to write a book – you know, do your 10,000 hours – but then figure out all the other aspects of a book. So like our process, we are going to interview our clients for about 20 hours over the phone. We start out with a strategy call, then we go into figuring out the table of contents and then we actually interview them through their table of contents, get all their value out, and then we go into transcription. We just transcribe everything word for word and that’s our paint. That’s the paint from which we start to paint a canvas. From there we start to paint the canvas through four different layers of development that each cover a different specific area. Then we go into out 7 point ghostwriting which is based on framework that I just told you about with snatch our attention and simplifying the point and so on. And then once that’s done, we deliver a proof to our authors who say, hey, come back into the process, give us [00:23:51.22] give us feedback. That way it’s kind of your sitting around a round table and you are very involved, but you don’t have to actually do the work. It more pointing and directing. Hey, I want this to be like this and I want this to be like that. This is my writing, boys. Stick to that. And then you know we do write back cover copy. We write the title, subtitle. We publish as e-book, paperback, hardcover, audio book – what have you. And we look at your book as different doorways – you know number one, it’s title and subtitle. That’s doorway number one. If you can’t get the reader through that, they are not going to go to door number two – which is they flip over the book, is the back cover copy, solid. If they don’t get past that, they are not going to open it up and see the table of contents [00:24:29.22] that’s door number three and then finally they get to reading that first chapter. So once all that is done and it’s all published and ready to go, that’s still just the beginning. Because now how do we get in front of people. So there is a lot to publishing. It’s a long process and what we do is we try to surround people with great stories, great ideas, bring great value to the world with a team that is cohesive and a whole, where you don’t have to go, do it yourself. So really it’s a time thing. It’s a time for money, money for time.

[MARKETING IN BOOKS] Joe Sanok: For most people, I think they don’t want to write a book and have it just sit on the shelf. They want to genuinely get out into the world. I know that you can’t guarantee that it gets in people’s hands, but what are some of the strategies – whether you do it yourself or whether you hire a ghostwriter – to get people to purchase the book and to really consume that book?

Caleb Breaky: So that is the cool thing about being a writer today. You can guarantee it gets into people’s hands. Now it doesn’t mean it’s easy. You have to figure out the right ads, the right funnels, but for instance this is what I will say sometimes it’s not even about selling your book. It’s using your book to position yourself as an authority, to establish base in the [00:25:42.24] of whatever you niche is. And a book does that if it’s done really well. And then a book becomes your Swiss Army Knife of marketing. Like you can use it not only just to establish authority, get speaking engagements or what have you. But here’s a couple of ways we have used books. So one of our niches is pastors. I wrote a book for pastors. It’s been free on Amazon for two years. It’s basically number one or number two in three kind of pastoral categories on Amazon to this day. Only pastors are downloading that free book. Within that book, they get an upgrade, a kind of, hey, here is a template guide that has an 80% opt-in rate. From there, they learn about our side business, sermontobook. So the whole funnel is working with the free book. You think why would you give away a book for free. Well, it’s because it’s bringing us ideal clients. Another way you can use your book is to just run paid advertising to it, and then within the five pages of the book and the back of the book, you link to your next thing. You say, hey, I’m Joe. Come checkup my podcast. Or hey, f you would like to, you know, I have offered a lot of value in this book. Told you about how to start a podcast or how did your practice. I would love to jump on the phone with you and offer a 30 minute free consultation and get to know you better. So it’s all about using your book. Again, it’s a Swiss Army Knife of marketing to help and develop a relationship with you. So sometimes it is worth it to create a very low barrier of entry to the great value you bring. Because that’s the hard part, is people need to know the value you bring before they start clinging on to you, and becoming a part of your tribe. And so books have so much value to them. You can reach out to conferences. I have done this to publish book. Reach out to conferences, hey I wrote this book. I absolute love what are you doing, so and so conference. I was wondering if I could, you know, teach a workshop or what have you. Then you start building relationships. People start talking. You get testimonials and it just snowballs from there. So a book is just a wonderful tool to have if you know how to use it.

Joe Sanok: Well, I think that so many of the people that are listening are already blogging. They are already creating content around their specialty and they want to get more exposure. They want to get those backlinks. They want to just go national. And a book seems one of those pillar things that when you are speaking, when you are, kind of, reaching out to conference organizers, it really builds that credibility. It can really help you get into markets you typically wouldn’t get into.

Caleb Breaky: Totally. Ah… one of the things we always try to do is figure out how can you do low touch, do really impactful things. So, you know, there’s lot of people out there blogging. But maybe they are not being seen very much. Like [00:28:27.21] hey. Use your book. Even take your book and use it for four solid articles, publish them, make them timeless. Put them on the internet. Do solid SEO and just drive traffic to it. Just drive a ton of traffic to it. You don’t need to write a blog every day or every week. Like why would you torture yourself that way? Just write the really good ones, that show how much value you bring and drive new traffic to it every single day and build up that SEO and get those backlinks. Because everyone’s struggling either to find more time or make more money. And usually there are odds. Right? Because we give our time to, “I got to do this blog.” “I got go to do this…,” you know, whatever it is. And so you’re trying to just find ways to get your content out there in evergreen style and writing a book really helps you do that because then you have all of your value in written form and you can repurpose that for multiple things. Blog posts, social media posts. Edgar app is a great way to do [00:29:26.12] (crosstalk)…

Joe Sanok: Oh, yeah [00:29:26.27].

Caleb Breaky: Yep, yep. Totally. And anyway, yeah. But I will go and [00:29:31.05].

Joe Sanok: So for people that are looking to budget to write a book, how much should they budget for marketing to make an impact. How much should they budget for a ghostwriter.

Caleb Breaky: My goodness! It ranges everywhere. You could so on Upwork for probably somewhere around $2000 or more. I am really not sure how the Upwork game goes, but basically you can find a contract to just do like the writing for you. Then you have agencies like ourselves where you are usually looking at least $15000 or more, some go up to $120,000. So it’s a big investment when you start thinking about the writing, the marketing, the whole thing. Because really if you go through an agency that’s kind of your full-fledged, do everything, marketing, set up your funnels, you are really hiring a platform building team. And you can just do the book, which will lower your costs obviously or you can do the full-fledged marketing. But I would say, usually you want to look at between $15000 or $25000. You could definitely get it cheaper than that, but you won’t get all the parts that comes [00:30:40.08]. So say you get a ghostwriter for $2000, you got to find a cover designer, you got to get someone to write the back cover copy. You got to get someone to format the book for all the different things. You have to figure out if someone can do your audio book. That cost me, you know, over two grand doing that [00:30:55.17]. So there’s a lot of different pieces, but that’s usually what you are looking at.

[CONCLUSION] Joe Sanok: Yeah. And I think that for people that are looking to level up their career, to really get into either more consulting or go beyond just their local market, when you look at the impact that can make, it can really be a good decision for leveling up an individual career. So Caleb, one of my last questions that I always ask is if every private practice owner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?

Caleb Breaky: So private practice. I would say, internet marketing rules the world and you pair that with content. And that’s a very… you have some powerful tools at your disposal. You know, I have said multiple times to people around at the town I live, if I wasn’t doing what I was doing, I would probably be going door to door to businesses and private practices and saying, “Listen, you have the ability to [00:31:46.03] you are paying for this billboard outside. What if we could put a billboard, like on side of every car that drives in this area, 24 x 7. Like that is what you have the ability to do today. Let me show you how to do it and let’s drive a whole lot more traffic to your practice. And here’s the content. Hey, if you want to establish yourself as a name, become the guy in a space, you know. Plant your flag in certain part of [00:32:15.12] of the niche to reach yourself, to get out of the obscurity within others who are doing the same thing you are doing. If you want to level up and become the guy, well, let’s talk about that. And what that means, and how to get your book on and how to get you to the right speaking engagements. And how to build up your bio, so that when people go to you, they go, “You know, I have got 10 options here and I need a reason that screams at me why I needed to go to this particular one. Let’s talk about building it up to where it’s a no-brainer. They have searched it on Google whatever and your name comes up and so does 10 others. You are the one they absolutely go to. So that is what I would say to those with private practices.

Joe Sanok: Awesome. Well, Caleb Breaky, if people want to connect with you, what’s the best way for then to connect with you?

Caleb Breaky: Sure. So you could find us at That’s four words. Speak it to book dot com. We have our sister site, that’s just for pastors. And then also when I do these podcasts, have a great value of a video series we give, and that can be found at And so they are going to get three videos. They are going to get our PDFs that go, you know, explain, hey books are bridges not banks. They are going to get a PDF on how to write four paragraphs, that they’ll absolutely need before they start their book. Then they are going to get our actual speakittobook blueprint, so that they can see what value and kind of just the whole process get a visual look at what’s going when you work with an agency like ours.

Joe Sanok: So that was

Caleb Breaky: You got it.

Joe Sanok: Perfect, and we will have that in the show notes as well as the seven points that you made and we have all sorts of other links in there as well. Caleb, thanks so much for being on the Practice of the Practice Podast.

Caleb Breaky: Thank you Joe. It’s absolutely wonderful. Thanks for the great questions.

Joe Sanok: Yeah.


Next week, we are going to be hearing from an interview with Jeffrey Shaw. He is going to be talking about finding your ideal client and learning to speak the language that resonates with them, so they come and work with you. Let’s hear a clip from that interview.

“The way we do our best work is to work with people who we are meant to work with. We just simply can’t create our greatest value in other people’s lives. And I know this is as a coach too. Again I try to make sure I am only working… in fact, I do I only work with my ideal customers because I want to make sure that I can create them a most amazing value for them because that’s the impact [00:34:49.09] plus. Hey, they are going to be happy and get good results and they can tell lot of people.”

If you are just getting started in private practice, we would love to help you out. We have a 28-step checklist as well. We have videos to show how to compare yourself in a local market and then you get paced out emails walking through the three step process of starting a practice, all those logistics, then how to get your ideal client and then how do you systemize things after that. You can get that at If you’re growing a practice… so if you’re over that $40,000 and you are looking to grow and le the practice, to learn about group practice, learn about systems, so that you can get to that multi six figure practice, head on over to and you will get access to our email training that will walk you through what to do at that phase.

Thanks so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have an amazing week, keep killing it. You guys rock!


This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It’s given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guest are rendering any legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.

[MUSIC] [END OF PODCAST 00:36:12.04]

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