Attract Clients and Grow Your Practice with Gen Morley | PoP 634

A photo of Gen Morley is captured. As the director of North Boulder Counseling, Gen specializes in anxiety and major life transitions for adults & children. Gen Morley is featured on Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

How can you use your time with focus and precision? Are the potential risks keeping you away from significant success? What are the cornerstones to growing a new practice?

In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks with Gen Morley about achieving private practice goals and growing your practice.

Podcast Sponsor: Simplified SEO

An image of Simplified SEO Consulting is captured as the sponsor on the Practice of the Practice podcast, a therapist podcast. Simplified SEO Consulting will help improve your private practice rankings and get you to the top of search engines.You’re a busy practice owner wanting to both continue growing your practice and leave enough time so you can make Thursday your new Friday. In order to grow your business in the 21st century, you know you need your website to be getting more traffic than it is right now. I recommend you check out Simplified SEO Consulting. Founded and run by a private pay group practice owner, their staff understand what it takes to get a private practice website to the top of Google and in front of more of your ideal clients. They have a proven process that focuses on making specific changes to your website that can make a huge difference.

To really grow your business, you need the most effective advice and the most efficient way to get your site to the top of search engines and help it stay there. What are you waiting for? Go to and schedule a call with their team.

Meet Gennifer Morley

A photo of Gennifer Morley is captured. She is an owner and therapist at North Boulder Counseling. Gennifer is featured on Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

Gen became a counselor after years of working in the medical profession. While applying to medical school, she realized that the aspect of medicine she most appreciated was supporting patients when they faced significant change and challenges in their lives. As a result, Gen has created an approach to counseling that effectively combines evidenced-based therapies with a down-to-earth approachability. As the director of North Boulder Counseling, Gen specializes in anxiety and major life transitions for adults & children.

Gen received her master’s degree in transpersonal counseling psychology from Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado. Her extensive expertise includes EMDR training at Maiberger Institute in Boulder, CBT training at Noeticus Counseling Center in Denver.

Visit Gen Morley’s personal website to find out more about her lifestyle coaching. Connect with her on LinkedIn.

Visit the North Boulder Counseling website and connect with them on Instagram and Facebook.

In This Podcast

  • Getting focused
  • Getting clients
  • Growing your practice
  • Gennifer’s advice to private practitioners

Getting focused

Get clear on what it is that you want, in both your long-term and short-term goals. Knowing what you want and having an idea of what you are working towards encourages you to make the best use of your time.

If it was work time, I worked. That was helpful, to start [thinking] “I run a business, and during work hours I work”. The first thing I did was to start managing my time, take my time, and own my time and that felt awesome. I wasn’t giving away my [work] time to my family. (Gennifer Morley)

Work in alignment with your environment: if you are at work during work hours, you work. Even if a client cancels or you have a free session, use that time to work, instead of running errands or cleaning the house. Run errands and clean the house when it is time to do them, not as avoidance strategies.

Getting clients

Gennifer’s first point-of-call was to boost her SEO ranking. In the beginning, many of her clients were personal referrals, which is great for repour but can be slow when the goal is to fill the practice.

It can be daunting to invest money into your practice but when you work with great resources and people, it can be one of the most rewarding decisions and a kick starter for growth.

Investing in SEO, joining Mastermind groups, and finding communities that inspire you are all bonuses that boost your practice to further heights.

Growing your practice

As you get ready to bring clinicians into your practice, look at the risks. When you are wanting to hire clinicians but feel nervous about the risk of failure – go to that place in your mind, what is the worst that could happen?

Worst case scenario, the whole thing falls on its face, and at that point, I lose nothing. I lose that person and what was invested in that income, but I still had all my clients, so I would just go back to square one essentially and had learned a whole bunch of stuff [to] try again later … this is amazing, there was almost no risk, and I have the potential for significant gain. This is a no-brainer. (Gennifer Morley)

Growth is often daunting and even though it is the key to future successes, sometimes it is avoided due to the risk.

Look at the risk – what is it really? Is the risk worth not trying for the potential success? Almost always the success is significant, and the chances for it are higher than you think.

Gennifer’s advice to private practitioners

Decide what it is that you want, not what you think you can get. How do you want your life to be? It might take longer than you thought and be more difficult than you realized, but do not let that dissuade you.

Books mentioned in this episode:

Image of the book Thursday Is The New Friday written by Joe Sanok. Author Joe Sanok offers the exercises, tools, and training that have helped thousands of professionals create the schedule they want, resulting in less work, greater income, and more time for what they most desire.

Useful Links mentioned in this episode:

Check out these additional resources:

Meet Joe Sanok

A photo of Joe Sanok is displayed. Joe, private practice consultant, offers helpful advice for group practice owners to grow their private practice. His therapist podcast, Practice of the Practice, offers this advice.

Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.

Thanks For Listening!

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Podcast Transcription

[JOE SANOK] This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 634.

I am Joe Sanok, your host, and welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast. I am so excited that you’re here. We have been having just some amazing guests on the show. We had an awesome book launch with Thursday is the New Friday. It’s been a wild fall, and that doesn’t even include all the craziness with COVID and probably your personal life and all sorts of things. I’m sure that the fall has been interesting for you in some way, shape or form.

Well, I’m so excited about who I have on the show today. Gen Morley is someone that I have known for a long time. Let me just tell you a little bit about Gen. Gen’s the owner of North Boulder Counseling in Boulder, Colorado, which is the top ranked anxiety counseling specialist in the area. She is the top ranked anxiety specialist in the area. She’s a licensed practicing counselor and has spent her life outside and curious about the human experience. Gen’s goal in life is to promote freedom from anxiety and fear for as many people as possible. Gen’s been come called wildly disarming. She values connection, truth telling and laughter. She’s also a triathlete, a mom, and a risk taker. Gen, welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast.
[GEN MORLEY] Oh, hi Joe. Thanks for that intro. I love it. I’m excited to chat with you.
[JOE] I know. I always am excited when you show up to things, whether it’s an interview or in Next Level Practice or Killin’It Camp. It’s just, you bring such a positive, fun energy, and I’m always just so excited to see you when I see you online or in person, the few times that we’re able to pull that off.
[GEN] I appreciate it. That’s a high compliment. Thank you so much. Yes, I am generally, when I’m doing whatever things that are related to what you’re doing, pretty excited because I love this work. So you get a lot of that parallel excitement.
[JOE] Well, let’s go back a little bit. So you listened to the show for a while and then you came to Killin’It Camp. Tell us about kind of your starting journey, of kind of where you were at right around Killin’It Camp, maybe a little bit before in 2019. How were things going for you? What was helpful when you were first getting started? Then we can talk about kind of how you’ve grown over the years.
[GEN] Sure. Joe, this is exciting. It’s exciting to one thing back on it and two to share with people. So Killin’It Camp that I went to, the first Killin’It Camp, which was 2019 leading up to that. I listened to every one of the Practice of the Practice podcasts, but I —
[JOE] Holy cow.
[GEN] Yes. No, I’ve listened to every single one.
[JOE] Days of your life just wasted on my voice.
[GEN] No, I’m going to tell you, Joe, I’m going to tell you story. So I finished grad school and I was listening to your podcast before I finished grad school. So I had already started my websites that I could start getting SEO even before I was opened and I opened the doors and had an office within 30 days of graduation. I was not making any money so I was a nanny for a family whose kiddo didn’t nap, unless we drove him. So while I was driving, I would listen to all of your podcasts while the kid was sleeping.
[JOE] Oh that’s so fun. I love these stories of when people found that they were listening to the podcast.
[GEN] So I would pull over when he finally fell asleep and take all the notes that I needed to do. Because the thing that I knew was there’s like, I don’t know how many other people have this happen, but I think a lot of therapists do, which is like, I’m a good person and I’m a good therapist. Then that means people will just come to me. But that is not actually how it works in my experience. So that happened, that was probably up until 2018. Then I had a baby. So there was like a little gap there. In 2019 I show up to Killin’It Camp. It was my, of course, biggest gross year ever and my gross income in 2019 was $29,000. So to me that was a well paid hobby and I was feeling pretty demoralized at Killin’It Camp.

I was like, is this ever going to work? I’ve seen people who say they were, even I was getting curious about people in my own town who were like, I have a private practice. I’m like, yes, so do I. Are you making any money? It was not a conversation anyone was having, except you, Joe. You were giving your monthly income statements. I was like, this guy’s making money. Either he’s a liar, which he didn’t seem to have that vibe or it is possible. So because I was my, essentially my husband was paying for us to live and just like voting of confidence in me and he was so amazing, but a little demoralizing to be making $29,000 a year with a master’s degree.

So Killin’It Camp came up because I listened to all your podcasts. So of course I got your, I was on your email list. I got everything at Killin’It Camp, came up and it was in Colorado and it just felt like a no brainer. I was like, this is already where I am. This guy has given me more bang for my buck than anything I found anywhere. Because Joe, I, you were not like the only thing I found on the internet. I’m sure you know that. But what Practice of the Practice did you had so much free information. I mean, I wish I could find my notes from, I just have all these notes, like Help A Reporter Out, this is what SEO is. This is how to network; have coffee with people instead of lunch. It’s before your day and it’s cheaper, all of these things. So I was like, well, I think I’m going to throw my hat in. I don’t know, that Killin’It Camp blew my mind. I don’t remember how many people —
[JOE] It blew my mind too.
[GEN] It was the first and I was like, looking back in this, like why it was, it changed my whole life not to be I’m so sorry to say that, I hate, oh, that sounds, but I really did. But the thing that happened is think as a parent and a therapist, I know like in child development, if you’re in a family, that’s missing pieces, if you see it somewhere else you know that it’s possible. That’s how we know that’s how we can get resilience in humans because we see each other and even if we never saw it and never had it, if we come in contact with someone who’s living it, then we say, that’s what that is. That’s what that feels like. That’s how to do that. That’s what Killin’It Camp was for me, all of a sudden success on this level group practice, really successful group practice was humanized. It was possible. It was real. It had faces.
[JOE] I think for me it was really interesting to see how many of the right people were in the room. I still remember I was doing this exercise where it was your comfort zone, growth zone and panic zone and kind of throughout the room. I said, so put yourself on the spectrum. Imagine your skydiving. Is that panic zone, growth zone, comfort zone, kind of going through these different things. Then I said, making more money than your peers. I thought people were going to be kind of growth zone, panic zone, but almost everyone was in their comfort zone, maybe a little in their growth zone.

It was just like, these are my people. We are starting at a point where we don’t have all this money shame and we can just say, okay, now where do we go? To have that group of 130 people that just were, we’re going to kill it together, let’s do this, for me it was super inspiring to just have kind of the live audience there. It wasn’t even an audience. We all hung out and just became friends and we’d eat together and stay up late together. It was just such an organic kind of relationship with people where so many of us are in towns where there’s just not therapists that think that way.
[GEN] Yes. I actually, as you say that, I’ve interviewed on a few podcasts and then now that we’ve been in virtual so long, I’ve given a lot of presentations virtually. And I’m imagining you doing your podcast and you’re putting it out there, but it’s like echoing into the universe and you really don’t know where it’s landing, but all of a sudden you could see all these people like, oh. Anyway, I was like, that’s got to be my blank. I think for me it would be hard to keep putting myself out there and I think I’m sure at some point you start to get feedback, but to like have the people in the room would be so amazing to me. So I’m actually excited. I’m like, I’m glad you got that. That’s, I’m really happy for you.
[JOE] When you think about when you left Killin’It Camp, that first six months, what were things that were kind of on your to-do list or action items that you said, okay, I’m at just under 30K a year. I’m inspired by these other people. I’m going to amp it up. What was your initial vision as you left that event?
[GEN] Okay, there was a couple things. One, this is so basic, I think Joe, but to be in the sprint, you did a sprint there and I could tell you now, like obviously sprints make sense. But especially as a new mom, I had felt before I had a baby, I was like, I had all this time and I couldn’t get this stuff done. Now I have a baby. I definitely can’t get this stuff done. But it actually did the inverse. So the sprinting made me realize you fight for what’s important to you. Fight sounds like negative, but it’s like, you just decide and you squeeze the lemon and you go after what’s important for you. You decide what you’re going to do with 20 minutes. So that became this thing that anything was possible if I just knew every time I had 10 minutes, I’d just go after it.
[JOE] It’s amazing that extreme focus when you’re like, I know what I need to do when I have my next 10 minutes or 15 minute block, it’s this. And just to have that lens, just say, here’s what I’m going to just go do and kill it when I have that specific time set aside. It’s amazing how much more you can start getting done.
[GEN] Right. So what I did was start to think about like, okay, for me, this was really huge on a personal level, because I was like, I’m still sort of in this, like I had a baby in my life. I’m never going to have a life again. I just I’m going to give it to this baby. It was maybe a little postpartum, let’s be honest. So all of a sudden I was like, oh, anything’s possible. Okay, get really clear, what do you want? Your old life is gone. What is your new life going to look like? I got really clear. I wanted to work three days a week until my son was old enough for preschool and then four day a week and never more than that. And I wanted to see this many clients a day. I got very, very clear. So the thing, I broke it all down, the big meta vision and then I said, what’s the number one goal? Okay, I need to make more money immediately. How do you make more money? You need to bring in more clients. Then so after that, there’s a whole six month year plan. But the very first thing was, I need more clients and it used to be sort of this daunting thing. But after I went to at Killin’It Camp, I was like, this is just work and I can work.
[JOE] So how’d you get more clients? What were the supports or things that helped you figure out how to do that?
[GEN] The biggest thing was, first of all, I started working. So if I had, at that point I was doing like, I had a little bit of childcare every day for the clients I was seeing. If I had a no-show or I had a client that wasn’t scheduled, I worked. I didn’t clean my house. I didn’t do like run errands. I used to run errands or like get stuff done for my house. If it was work time I worked. So that was really helpful to just start to think of like, I run a business and during work hours I work. So the first thing I did was start to just manage my time and take my time and own my time and that felt really awesome.

I wasn’t giving away my time to my family. The actual things I did probably number one was SEO. I live in a very competitive market in Boulder, Colorado, and I was being found maybe one person a month. Then they were not always a match. So almost all of my clients were personal referrals, which just speaks to how much amazing rapport I have because I was actually having some clients. But I just needed, I was like, I need Google to love me and I’m going to pay for Google to love me.
[JOE] So when you say pay, were you doing Google Ads? Did you hire somebody to help with SEO? What did you do?
[GEN] Yes, I hired SEO, our favorite, Jessica Tappana, and she —
[JOE] Oh man. It’s so funny. Actually this episode is being sponsored by her and that’s totally a coincidence.
[GEN] I love it.
[JOE] It’s so awesome.
[GEN] I wish people could, I mean, probably people will get to know her from this, but her and her people are so down to earth. So like I cannot stand, part of the reason, before I was inside, I also joined Next Level Practice. We’ll go into that in a second. Inside of Next Level Practice from Killin’It Camp, I got all these referrals for people that I got transferred rapport from. So it made that decision paralysis just so much easier. So there’s like two people to choose from or even sometimes Jessica Tappana was like the one. And she, like her people don’t feel schmoozy or anything. I felt like I could just be my candid self and be received that way and have my website really feel like me and be, you know like they’re really understanding the vision I had and not trying to like schmooze it.
[JOE] Well, I think that, just to like step back to talk about Jessica’s story, I remember when she was at Slow Down School and just helping people on the couch in the evenings do their SEO. And by the end of the week, she’s like, if I started a business to help with SEO, how many of you would want to be clients? Like 10 people raise their hands. I think often we think, oh, as a therapist, I can’t jump into this other market because there’s already people doing all that. But it’s like, we have a different posture towards business that Jessica can be that down to earth type of person that just brings who she is as a therapist into the SEO world, which then sets her apart for people like yourself that you don’t want those schmoozy SEO people. You want a down to earth therapist type person. So anyone that’s listening to this and thinking, oh, I have an idea that’s outside of the therapy world, you being a therapist entering that world sets you apart in so many ways that help you niche that the average person just doesn’t even know how to do.
[GEN] Yes. It’s exciting. That’s one of things in terms of being part of, you know I went, from Killin’It Camp, I signed up for Next Level Practice and actually it was such a flaming deal. I don’t remember what it was, but I was like, oh my God, this is a huge deal. You guys offered something at Killin’It Camp that was like a great deal. It’s already a good deal anyway and then, but it was like, I was like, oh God, I’m going to spend money on my practice. It was by far and away, like the thing that, Killin’It Camp was sort of like this launch. Then the Next Level Practice just like kept me aloft.

Like it really was so helpful to be with all of these people who were doing what I was doing and had questions like I had. One of the things Joe, you know we’re not supposed to compare each other, but we do compare ourselves to each other. So it was really cool to see someone say like I had my first $10,000 month and I was like, I’m like pretty close to that. I’m going to, that’s going to be my next school. Like, it didn’t occur to me that’s like a great goal. So just seeing those people like, so I’m a little obsessed about community and how much being together as humans does for us. So to me, this just underscores that times a thousand.
[JOE] Well, and I think that it’s interesting to see the people that show up to almost every event in Next Level Practice. I get to know them, I see their faces, they’re showing up for themselves and putting in that time outside of it. Those are the people that just accelerate their growth so much faster and so to just see you show up, I mean, I can picture the background of your office because you just showed up so much. It’s not just your face, but like that cool wood background that you had in that office. I think you may have moved offices, but it’s just, when you keep showing up over and over you’re going to have those results.
[GEN] That’s like, I think you talked about this a lot, but I’m also, I am now obsessed with all these. Not obsessed, but I love podcasts about human performance and ambition and just all different human experiences and optimizing human experience and the idea that we’re the average of the five people we spend the most time with. So if I spend at least a couple hours every week with other group practice owners, which is where I am now then I’m upping my average. I’m thinking about things like, oh, when I go to the gym, I listen to podcasts that are exciting to me about how to level up or how to get in a mindset that’s going to get my peak performance or how to rest deeply. So that becomes, even though I’m not locally around these people, it becomes one of the five people or the five groups of people I spend the most time with.
[JOE] Yes. I think that’s so important to look at how am I being influenced and how am I being inspired, even seeing people that are having 10 grand months in their practice to say, oh, I want to pick that person’s brain and figure out what they did. They may be six months or a year ahead of me to then say, I have access to those people and I’m choosing to get my information from them. That’s more curated than just I’m going to go on YouTube and watch a million different, random video. These people are going to actually help me implement things. So when did you start to really kind of get to that next level where you outgrew Next Level Practice and you wanted to kind of go beyond that?
[GEN] Well, as soon as I left Killin’It Camp, I was like, I’m going to have a group practice. I actually, in undergrad, I mean, sorry, in grad school, I was thinking to have a group practice. The name of my practice is North Boulder Counseling specifically, so that it could become a huge regional practice. That’s a very, like group sounding name in my mind. So I was really clear from your podcast and then also from a few people I talked to at Killin’It Camp that I didn’t need to have my schedule full to start a group practice. I only worked three days a week. So I was like, I am going to, I did three big things. I got my finances in line, I got very clear about my budget and how to spend things and then I stopped putting money in between all different bank accounts. I already had a bank account for my practice, but I was sort of just mixing all the pots. So I got very clear about money and I decided I want to build wealth and become an investor and that’s the road I’m on. So I was excited that that was possible.
[JOE] Let me pause you there. When you say become an investor, what do you invest in?
[GEN] Well, right now we’re saving money to buy a house, a much bigger and nicer house. Then the next thing is start investing in real estate in the area because Boulder’s really significant. Then I want to play in the stock market. I think women owning property and having a big or any play in this bigger financial market is a really cool social justice move and also just fun.
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[JOE SANOK] There’s an awesome podcast called Bigger Pockets that’s all about real estate that is awesome. So if you’re going to get into the real estate world, they interview business real estate people, short-term rentals, long-term rentals, all sorts of ways to do deals, even just learning the burr method where you buy, renovate, rent, refinance, and then how you can use that for tax advantages and different things. It’s just an awesome podcast if you’re getting into real estate.
[GEN] Thanks for the referrals. Totally take it. That’ll be my next podcast. I forgot where we were talking about.
[JOE] Growing into a group practice, thinking that you didn’t have to be full to do it.
[GEN] Perfect. Good memory, Joe. Sounds like you were a therapist at one point.
[JOE] I was at some point until I retired.
[GEN] Oh, dang.
[JOE] I even put my NBCC in retirement a couple years ago when I sold the practice. So that follows a very good, like, I’m going to just pause this. Anyway, group practice.
[GEN] I love it. So I just said, okay, I’m only using my office four days a week. I’m going to rent it out, not rented out, I’m going to hire someone to be in my office on Monday and Friday and then I leave at like four or five o’clock and they can be there in the evenings too. So my first person I hired who is, her one year anniversary is this week, I’m taking her to lunch today, she came in. She was working like two other part-time jobs. She was this person who is an amazing therapist, but like really just had all these piece meals that was not really satisfying. She came in and loved it, loved the autonomy, loved, we have a client base that’s pretty awesome. I think for a lot of therapists, it would be like in the realm of dream clients.

I was terrified at first. I’m like, “Oh God, what if I don’t get any clients?” So I hired two people, one online therapist and her, because the online therapist didn’t require any office space. She, I think in six months was totally filled with 25 clients and by the end of the year, I hired her at like the end of August and by like November, December, she was very happy with her clients and was asking for more. She was planning to quit one of her jobs.
[JOE] Dang, what was, so at that phase, what was helpful to grow the group practice? Because I know for a lot of people that feels like a daunting task. Starting a practice is one thing, okay, I got the website, got some of the basics. Do I want to be on insurance or not? But then to navigate 1099s, W2’s, payroll, all of that, what were some of the helpful things at that phase?
[GEN] Probably two things, one Next Level Practice has all that stuff and all these other people who are doing it. I’m also a bit of a risk taker, not huge, but so I was like, okay, what I did was I looked at the actual risk I was taking. So if this totally fails, a fall on its face, it’s one of my favorite things in therapy and anything, let’s go to worst case scenario, what are we going to do? Worst case scenario, the whole thing falls on its face and at that point I lose nothing. I lose what was invested in that person and their income, but I still had all my clients. So I just would go back to square one essentially and learn a whole bunch of stuff and try it again later. To me, that was a really, I was like, this is amazing. Like it’s almost no risk? And I have the potential for significant gain. This is a no-brainer.
[JOE] Now, when you ran the numbers for that significant gain, what were ways that you kind of calculated that out?
[GEN] So, you mean like trying to figure out like after everything, what could I make?
[JOE] Yes, I mean, when you were deciding, okay, the worst case scenario, I’m kind of back where I am, best case scenario, did you run numbers or did you just know, okay I’ll make some money.
[GEN] Oh, I ran numbers all the time.
[JOE] Okay. What were just, and you don’t have to actually run those numbers, but how did you think through what the upside was of that decision?
[GEN] So, well, I mean, on a really basic level if this person saw any people, it was costing me, I think, between the email and the EHR and the electronic medical records, it was like about a hundred dollars a month to add her, because I already was paying the rent. So it was just those things. So that meant if she saw two clients, like two sessions, I was at zero. Even if she saw no one, I could definitely just take a hundred dollars a month hit. So there was literally, it felt like there was nothing but gains to be had there.
[JOE] So you run the numbers, you say there’s very little risk here, you go through some of the modules, then when did it really start to take off for you in regards to, wow, this person’s really seeing more people maybe than you even expected?
[GEN] So she started, by December, she started saying, can I get more office hours? So I started hustling being like, so I was in a suite, I only had one office in the suite and I was like, okay, I can probably get these other people to rent me their offices when they’re not there. Because are all my friends in the suite. It’ll work out. And all of a sudden at the end of like the very end of December, I was like, oh, I am going to keep growing this fast, if not faster and I need to get more offices. And Joe, talk about running outside the comfort zone. I was excited and terrified and, I don’t know if this happens to you, but when I get like really outside my comfort zone, whether I like it or not, I start to think funny. So I was like, oh God, what if, and I found, because it was the middle of COVID, Joe, I was reading the negotiation book by the, was it Voss?
[JOE] Oh, Never Split the Difference?
[GEN] Yes.
[JOE] Yes, oh such a good book.
[GEN] I found all, okay, go.
[JOE] I used that Harper Collins book about negotiation against Harper Collins, to negotiate with Harper Collins. It was so funny. My editor was just like, how did you come up with that number, because I basically took what the number they gave me, doubled it and then made it look like a funny number that was very precise. The whole team was just like, how did you get that number? It’s just like, I love it so much. That’s such a good book. I love that you used that book.
[GEN] It was, I actually felt sort of, so all of this too, to me, like you have to know in the background, this is all like a competition slash a fun puzzle. It’s very—
[JOE] It’s like a chess game.
[GEN] Yes. It’s so fun. Like will this new hire work? I don’t know. What could I do to maximize the option? What will happen if I fail? Like I always have to be willing to fail. The holding is so exciting to me and then to go to throws on a full suite. So I have a three office suite. I kept my other office too. So now I have four offices, a waiting room and a kitchen. I knew the people, the people who were in the suite I’m in now had defaulted and were in the suite with me. So I knew their whole story. I found out how much rent they were paying. I knew everything. The real estate agent, the owners, there’s two buildings next to each other and the people who owned it had no idea how much I knew.

I was reading this book and it was COVID and I got this office, I’m in this new office right now. I think it’s like 40% cheaper than what they were renting it before and then I doubled down and got they, I asked for free rent. They’re like, you’re getting it so much cheaper and you’re getting rid of your other lease. We’re letting you out of the other lease. So we’re not going to give you free rent. So I waited like two weeks and then said, okay, I’ll take the free rent and keep my other office. Little did they know I was always planning to keep the other office, which was also like the cheapest office ever. I came in, there was a flood here in 2013 and these buildings got flooded and they remodeled the whole thing. I came in while they were remodeling and negotiated the lease price on that office.
[JOE] Oh man, I love the ninja tactics. It’s so awesome.
[GEN] Plus, that’s so fun. It was so fun. The guy was like, he was probably not someone I’m going to spend a lot of time with. He was a little, he’s about 29 or 30 and very excited about how cool he was for my assessment. I’m hoping he has a wonderful life, but I locked, I put my phone in one of the offices when I was looking at the space and turned on a podcast full blast so I could see if you could hear talking between the offices and I shut the door. Well, the door was locked and I was like, oh, can you lock the door? And he says, I didn’t bring any of the keys for the office. He’s annoyed with me. He’s like clearly annoyed that I locked my phone in the office. I was like, buddy, you came to show me the office and you didn’t bring keys?
[JOE] Oh my.
[GEN] So anyway, there’s little things like that where I was like, I don’t mind making sure that I get the best value here.
[JOE] That’s awesome. Well, let’s kind of start to land this. Where are you at now? Take us, so in fall of 2019, you are around $29,000 a year. Share whatever you feel comfortable sharing as to where you are at now.
[GEN] Totally. I would love to. So I just pulled up my taxes last night so I could get you real numbers. So last, when I filed for 2019, my gross for the year was 29K and change. When I filed last year for 2020, my gross was 128 and change and this year a modest estimate would be 350 and change, $350,000 gross for my practice.
[JOE] Dang, Gen, like over tenfold in two years. Not even two years, I mean, year and a half of kind of really putting some solid focus in. That’s insane. I’m so proud of you. You’ve done just so much work. Holy cow. So I know we can just talk forever and ever, and maybe we should do like a webinar or something because you just have so much insight. But the last question that I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know?
[GEN] Decide what you actually want not what you think you can get.
[JOE] Ooh, say that again.
[GEN] Decide what you actually want, not what you think you can get in your finances and your life every day. How do you want your life to be? And do not negotiate. It might take longer than you thought, and it might be harder work than you thought, but don’t negotiate that;
[JOE] Such great advice. So Gen, if people want to connect with you, if they want to hear more about your practice what’s the best way for them to connect with you?
[GEN] Well, let’s see. I have two, my main thing is North Boulder Counseling. So that’s probably in the show notes and I’m just building out, which has a bunch of this kind of stuff and then a whole other site thing. One of the cool things that about working with Group Practice Boss, Next Level Practice is also I’ve figured out the things outside of therapy that I’m actually really good at. So either one of those you can find me and reach out. I would love if you have questions.
[JOE] We’ll put links to all that in the show notes, as well as links to the Bigger Pockets podcast, the Never Split the Difference book. I think that’s all the resources we’ll have on.
[GEN] And Jessica Tappana.
[JOE] Yes, Jessica Tappana, we will definitely talk about her in just a second as well. Well, Gen, thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast.
[GEN] Thanks Joe. It was great talking to you. Have a good day.
[JOE] Wow. It’s so fun to just talk to people like Gen who have just dug in, done the work, I mean tenfold in less than two years. That’s insane. You can go do big things too. That idea that this is just one unique person that hit the lottery. Now we see it all the time. My attorney makes me say that results are not guaranteed, but we see people in Next Level Practice and Group Practice Boss leveling up all the time and just magnifying what they’re doing and helping more people.

So if you want to actually get better SEO, Gen could not have time that more perfectly for this episode, head on over to Again, Simplified is Jessica’s company. She’s helped hundreds of different practices to rank hire in Google, to be able to show up differently. We actually use them for our SEO to make sure that we’re optimized and they work directly with our team to give us advice on copywriting and blog posts we should be doing and ways that we can continue to position ourselves strategically with Practice of the Practice. So we use them and pay them for that as well. So make sure you check out Simplified SEO Consulting.

Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. We have a ton of great podcasts coming up. Make sure you stay tuned. Three days a week now, every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, with Wednesdays being those solo shows where you can submit your questions over at So make sure you ask me those questions about your practice and how to get to the next level. So thanks again for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have an amazing day. I’ll talk to you soon. Bye.
[GEN MORLEY] Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. We really like it. This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.

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