How to Get Clients Using Your Website | Website Roundtable with John Clarke, Perry Rosenbloom, Joe Sanok and Jaime Jay | PoP 285

Website Roundtable

What’s the funnel that you use to get people to your website? And, once they’re on your website, how do you keep them there?

In this episode, Joe Sanok speaks with with John Clarke, Perry Rosenbloom, Joe Sanok and Jaime Jay, in this Website Roundtable about how to get clients to use your website.

Podcast Sponsor

Earlier this year, we launched Next Level Practice. Next Level Practice is the supportive community that helps people start practices. Over time, we are going to continue to add content around growing and scaling a practice but, for right now, it’s just for people that have said to themselves, “I want to start a practice!” And, they got it going, and maybe it’s not going as well as they want.

There are so many different things that are part of this. We have live webinars, live Q&A, you get matched up with a one-on-one accountability partner, you get put into a small group of other people starting practices, and you get the support of me and my whole team – Alison, Sam, and Emily. We give away tons of free stuff, and we have competitions in there to help you take really great steps towards starting a practice. Things like: updating your Facebook page, making sure that your website looks good, and making sure that you’re attracting your ideal client.

So, if you are starting a practice and you want the authoritative, supportive community to be surrounding you so that you can be successful, head on over to


Meet John Clarke

I’m a licensed psychotherapist and a private practice expert. I’ve built thriving practices from the ground up in San Francisco, CA and Charlotte, NC.

In building my current practice, I had 6 private-pay clients booked for the first day that my doors were open.


Meet Jaime Jay

Jaime is a big hockey fan and he loves incorporating the sport into his business. He is the managing director for, a WordPress development company where he builds websites that help define your brand.

He is the host of It’s a business marketing show where he interviews top thought leaders, authors, business professionals and more.

One of the most challenging areas in the podcasting industry is finding the time to consistently publish your podcast. He founded This is a company that helps solve the time spent on publishing podcasts by offering professional editing and writing services. Basically, all a podcaster has to do is record their show and hand it off to Podcast Pilot. They will put your podcast on auto-pilot.

He is also the founder of Jaime has established a staff of WordPress developers that provide WordPress maintenance and help for people that don’t have the time or the knowledge to manage their own WordPress website.

Meet Perry Rosenbloom

Perry is the founder of Brighter Vision and bootstrapped the business from day one.

Before founding Brighter Vision, Perry built a number of outdoor-oriented, Internet based businesses that currently send over $1,000,000 in annual sales to REI, Backcountry, Amazon and other major brands.


In This Podcast


This is episode two of the three-part podcast series, Website Roundtable. In this episode, John Clarke, Jaime Jay, and Perry Rosenbloom discuss the more advanced ways to optimize your website. This includes SEO as well as ways to get people to your website through social media, paid advertising, and more!

Advanced Ways to Optimize Website With SEO

  • Can you handle it yourself / should you get someone else who can focus solely on it and do it better than you?
  • NB to have well-targeted/high-quality links back to your website
    • Reach out to your network and offer to write guest blog post and link back to your website (do this quarterly)
    • Use Site Rank Authority to find high-quality websites

“Changing your CTA text can increase your conversion rate by 165%.”

Ways to Get People Onto Your Website

  • Rank naturally on Google due to well-placed keywords / links back to your website from high-quality websites
  • Paid advertising, i.e.: Google Adwords / Facebook ads
    • Capture people who aren’t quite ready to buy yet
    • Don’t direct people to your homepage, but to a specific page that relates to the advert
    • Ensure continuity (builds trust)
  • Social media
  • Email marketing
    • Free opt-in focused on your ideal client
    • On-going drip email campaign, i.e.: 3-day email course on how to improve a relationship
  • Don’t use pop ups – Google will mark you down for this
    • On mobile devices, this is all the user will see
  • Always give people two choices / call-to-actions, but no more than that, otherwise users will get confused, i.e.:
    • “I need a counselor now”
    • “I’m not sure yet”

“When you give people clear direction, they will follow.”

Useful Links:

Meet Joe Sanok

private practice consultantJoe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.






Thanks For Listening!

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Podcast Transcription

File: PoP 285 How to Get Clients Using Your Website Roundtable with John Clarke, Perry Rosenbloom, Joe Sanok and Jaime Jay
Duration: 0:30:33:26

[START] Joe Sanok: Obviously, you’re going to invest in a website. Of course, you’re going to want IT support. But there’s also something else that is a no-brainer when it comes to leveling up your practice. Next level practice is the membership community and to call it a membership community doesn’t even capture what it really is. It is the authoritative support for starting a practice. If you are under $40,000 a year and you don’t want to waste time. You want to launch faster and you want to start seeing clients all in the context of community and learning with me, then you go over to so that you can request your invitation for the next cohort for next level practice. We just launched our second cohort and it filled up quickly and we would love for you to go request your invite today. Again, that’s


This is the Practice of the Practice Podcast with Joe Sanok, session #285.

[MUSIC] [INTRODUCTION] Joe Sanok: Welcome to the Practice of the Practice Podcast. I am Joe Sanok, your host, here lin the radio center two building in downtown Traverse City. If you are just starting a practice. If you are growing one or if you’re scaling one, I’m so excited that you’re here. You know, just a quick tip that when you’re under $100,000 and you’re that solopreneur, you’re running full tilt, you’re wearing multiple hats, time is your biggest asset because you have time to write all those things, to check all those emails, to put in that extra time. But when you get to that six figures, you really want to switch over to that CEO mindset where you’re taking hats off and you really want to move away from doing as many things, start outsourcing more. But after that, once you are in that multi six figure, you want to move towards being more of an owner. You know the owner of a company, they really just reap the profits and they really pull themselves out of running the daily operations in every way possible. And so to do that, you need to have a community of people around you that are teaching you how to do that. And that’s why we try to do all day long with this podcast, and with our blog, and with all products we offer. So remember that, you’re going to be first bootstrapping it. You’re doing that solopreneur thing. Then moving into a CEO mindset and then moving into an owner mindset. Keep it up. Today, we are talking all about websites, website round table. So without any further ado, let’s get this thing going.


Joe Sanok: Well, welcome to the Practice of the Practice Podcast, this is episode two of website roundtable. We yesterday covered a ton of things that are essential to your website. We talked about low hanging fruit and what people mess up on. We have John Clarke from Unconditional Media. Good day to you sir.

John Clarke: Good morning. Happy to be here.

Joe Sanok: Jaime Jay from Slapshot Studio. How are you doing?

Jaime Jay: Good. Thanks for having me.

Joe Sanok: We have Perry Rosenbloom from Brighter Vision. Welcome back.

Perry Rosenbloom: Thank you so much. Glad to be back.

Joe Sanok: Well, Jaime. You were just telling us about your staff meeting, that we pulled you out for this series. I love what your social media manager came up with. Will you tell us all what you came up with?

Jaime Jay: [LAUGH] Yes. So my Social Media Manager’s name is Kristine. She is just creative as can be. And so every week, we have a different person lead our weekly meetings and so she sent out this, oh my gosh, what you call them…. schedule for the meeting, agenda… [00:03:39.19]… and she said, “Jaime is that okay if I do this?” And I said, “You are leading it. It’s up to you.” She said, “Okay.” And what she did is she came up with this sort of game to start things off where she would sing a song… and/or a part of a song… and the last word she would leave off with. She would then pick someone else on the team and say go and they would have three seconds to start singing a song with that word. It could be anywhere in the song. And then that person would finish and then three seconds they would have to pick someone else. And the first person that wasn’t able to think of a song that started with that word within three seconds… and you could make it up kind of two… well, then you’re going to be speaking next week. And we had R.J. one of our developers, very, very shy fellow was just [00:04:25.23] out at the top of his lungs [00:04:29.22]. It was just great way to kick it off and left us all just buckled over in laughter. It was a…

Joe Sanok: I love it. So all four of us have teams and I love that idea of creating community and teams within your business where people just enjoy working there. You know it takes lot more than just putting a ping pong table in somewhere, you know to actually have a culture that people enjoy coming to work. So that’s such a super example of that.

Well, today we are diving and we are talking all about kind of funnels, and by funnels what we mean if you haven’t heard that term before is basically how do people get to your website. What’s the funnel that they kind of get led to your website. Once they are on your website, how do you keep them there and then get them to schedule. And so our three experts plus me… I’m not so much of an expert as these three guys… we are going to be talking all about how to do that. So SEO is something we are talking a little bit about in the last episode of making sure that your website is optimized. Now, let’s talk a little about kind of more advanced ways to optimize a website. We talked last time about content, making sure it’s scan-able, header ones, bullet points, how long articles should be. Things like that. Now, let’s talk a little bit more advanced. What you guys recommend in regards to optimizing a website for search that goes beyond just a little bit of content?

John Clarke: Do you want me to start?

Perry Rosenbloom: Go ahead and start…

Joe Sanok: I’m sure we [00:05:50.11] that. You guys are also polite. I want to see if…

John Clarke: [00:05:53.09] diving into SEOs or…?

Joe Sanok: Let’s dive into SEO little bit.

John Clarke: [00:05:57.00] how technical you want to get. I mean… yeah…

Joe Sanok: Yeah. So what’s… John, what you people consider in regards to… maybe takes us through level of technical-ness. So let’s go big picture…

John Clarke: Okay.

Joe Sanok: Then we can kind of dive into some of the more technical kind of sides of it.

John Clarke: Well, yeah. Just making that decision early on and saying, can I handle this myself or some of it myself versus can I have someone else who does it all day every day, knock it out for me in a number of hours and do a better job. So I think that’s the other thing that I realized with any type of digital marketing, especially when we start talking about paid advertising or Google AdWords or Facebook ads, as a therapist and as a lay person you are going to end up competing with digital marketers and especially as more and more therapists hire digital marketing teams to do it for them, you’re going to be competing with those people who just like you and I went to school for mental health counseling, they went to school for digital marketing and do this in their sleep. So I think that’s the other thing and we can talk about some of the kind of easy things to do, the low hanging fruit for SEO, but I would like to kind of start with that caveat for therapists.

Joe Sanok: Yeah, and I think right now, there’s so few people that are even thinking about digital marketing that lots of times you’ll rank really high, really fast in your industry, unless you’re in a larger market. But you are absolutely right. More and more people are thinking this way thanks to podcasts like all of ours. And so as a result of that they are hiring professionals to do a lot of those… what are some other things around SEO and making sure your website is attracting people that people should consider? Maybe kind of broad strokes here and then some of the technical side.

[00:07:38.08]] Perry Rosenbloom: Broadly speaking, I think that something people are missing out on is how important it is to get well targeted links back to your website. And I think there is a major misunderstanding of what that is. So a pretty crucial element of search engine optimization is having high quality links point back to your website. The reason for that is Google considers every link a vote for your website and so if you don’t have anybody voting for your website, Google is going to [00:08:19.22] that it’s not going to be as relevant or as target specific search queries. So what you can do that’s really easy piece of low-hanging fruit to help your search engine optimization… this is something you can do yourself. You don’t need a professional for this. Reach out to your network and just say something, “Hey, I’d love to write a guest blog post for your website. Would you mind if I wrote a guest blog post?” Write a blog post for them. It can be something pretty timely, like you know we just passed a holiday season. So “five ways to deal with the stress of family around the holidays,” or Valentine’s days is coming up and so something… if you’re a relationship therapist, [00:09:02.27] three ways to knock down times day out in the park for your significant other. Something like that. Doesn’t need to be, you know, something of medical journal ran. You know, just something engaging and something relevant. Write a guest blog post for someone in your network and link back to your website. And just doing that once a quarter is going to have a really positive impact on your website for a very low cost of your time and you’ll see a really great positive ROI from that. Google start sending you more [00:09:38.14]. You’re going to get traffic from that guest blog post and it all just snowballs on top of itself.

Joe Sanok: And one thing you can look at is you can use what’s called site rank authority. You can look at what a website site rank authority is. It is 0 to 100 scale and then you could also see what links for your website are playing to and helping with that. And so having a higher site rank authority websites point back to you. If things like CNN are going to be 99 to a 100, somewhere up there, whereas you know the average counselors website is going to be somewhere between 10 and 15 and that jump to go from 10 to 15 to 30, it’s lot easier to go from 89 to 90. So early on if you can get those people to give you those back links that’s really helpful. Another tip is I encourage people to use help [00:10:22.16] and to be responding to that. These national websites are looking to quote people. And so we have back links from Readers Digest, from Huffington Post, from lot of these high ranking websites and that’s going to help with those back links. Jaime, I would love to hear more about just kind of the overall sales funnel, then we can kind of compartmentalize it. So before people get to a website, what are some strategies people can do to get people on to their website, and then after that we will all talk about [00:10:51.09] after they are on the website, you know, we have talked yesterday about what people do, what maybe some strategies to really get them into that sales funnel. So what are some strategies, Jaime, for getting people to the website?

Jaime Jay: That might be a better question posed to John because I think getting people to the website is I think, you know, that’s your social media outreach that’s your paid advertising and things like that. It maybe a form of what Perry said, getting articles written in high-ranking publications things like that. Those are all really great ways. I think John could probably speak more to that since I don’t really focus on the paid advertisement part.

Joe Sanok: Yeah. John, can we talk about some of the paid and unpaid strategies just to get people on the website?

John Clarke: Yeah. There’s a lot of… again, there are lot of things you can’t do on your own, and this is a lot of what we go over when someone’s working with our team in Unconditional Media. We are going to point out a bunch of things you can’t do on your own in addition to the things that you are going to pay a little bit for. So there are a lot of ways to get more people to your website and also to get the right people to your website. So you can and ideally should be ranking naturally on Google by having the right keywords in the right places and by sending traffic to your site from multiple locations. Right? Like what Perry was saying. When you have a more important site… a more popular site sending traffic to a less popular site meaning probably yours, that reflects really, really well for the overall SEO picture. And then you can pay for traffic. Right. So Google AdWords again definitely is our bread and butter and the thing we do most for therapists. When you’re going to pay for that traffic, you need a way to capture the people who aren’t quite ready to buy yet. And this is one of the things that I think so many therapists are missed out on right now is again if I am looking at five different therapist websites and I am just looking at five today and then I’m going to close all those tabs and go somewhere else. And let’s say you are running Google AdWords and say you have paid for that click. And that’s how that potential client found you. They are interested, but they close out those tabs, so they close on their computer and maybe next week they start their search again. There is a missed opportunity there to capture that lead. So we start talk little bit about marketing and building your email list. But again, if you are going to do paid advertising, whether it’s Facebook ads or Google AdWords, make sure you have a way to capture those leads. There’s people who are not quite ready to start yet, not quite ready to convert, but they are interested. They want to keep the conversation open. So an email often with just a morsel of content, just something small but meaning that you can give away for free would be a great start for a lot of therapists listening right now.

Joe Sanok: What would an example of that be?

John Clarke: The best way to do that is think of a question that your clients often have. Right? So for therapists, it might be how do I improve my Google my business listing? So we might do an opt-in or a freebie that says you know five ways to improve your Google my business listing. Download the PDF. When you put an email address, you become part of our email list. We can keep in touch with you. We can start warming that relationship up with you. Whether you are ready to work with us now or six months from now doesn’t really matter. But we are going to keep the conversation going that way. So think about it in terms of your clients, right. If your niche is pretty narrow or if you do eating disorders and teenage girls, then get a freebie around that. Right? Think of a question that people have about eating disorders or a quiz [CROSSTALK]…

Jaime Jay: Can I say something on that?

John Clarke: Yeah, yeah. Go for it.

Jaime Jay: Yeah. So I don’t want to interrupt your thought here, but this is where therapists have a huge wake-up up on any other industry. And the reason why is I don’t know anybody that takes better notes.


Perry Rosenbloom: How [00:14:56.14].

Jaime Jay: They are actually taking notes based on what their conversation are. These are actual words that people are using in a controlled environment. Now, obviously you are not going to be using names or anything, but these concerns their expressing themselves in a way that they feel that they need to be expressed. So if you are wondering what your key words are, there you go. Go check your [CROSSTALK]…

John Clarke: That’s awesome, Jaime.

Jaime Jay: Yeah. Am I addicted to social media, am I drinking too much, how you know… there’s so much of…

Joe Sanok: I got.


Joe Sanok: Yeah. I love that point. You’re like, so really kind of use the words the people use in their intake about why they came. So how’s… Perry, I have noticed that Brighter Vision does a lot of Facebook advertising, and obviously it works for you guys or you wouldn’t keep doing it. So what have you noticed in regards to Facebook advertising or even sometimes I see your Google advertising will pop up. You guys just keep retargeting me, like.. [LAUGH]…

Perry Rosenbloom: I know [00:16:02.08]…

John Clarke: You must have seen the website…

Perry Rosenbloom: You do the right searches all the time.

Joe Sanok: [LAUGH] So when you guys decided to do that paid advertising, what do you consider and then what do you think therapists should consider because… I know that’s a big question that John, and I, and Jaime, we get a lot too. What have you learned…

Perry Rosenbloom: Yeah. So much. [LAUGH] And you know some of the ones that Brighter Vision has [00:16:25.24] might not be exactly relevant to therapists because you know every industry is different. But from our perspective everything that John or Jaime has said is absolutely correct. You want to have some sort of freebie giveaway, so that you can capture an email address, capture contact information and start building that relationship. As opposed to doing something like a downloadable PDF, what we prefer to do and what we encourage our clients to do in [00:17:03.09] is to utilize a ongoing drip email campaign. So a three-day email course on how to improve your relationship, for example. Obviously, your copy should be little more engaging than that. But what we like about email campaigns for people that are using paper clicking and pens as opposed to a downloadable product is a gift people use to seeing your name. It creates a conversation. And I mean I can… I’m sure we are all internet professionals here. I’m sure we have all downloaded so many e-books. I think I have opened one e-book ever. And I know… I see Joe nodding his head there. You know, you don’t really open them too much. Whereas in email course, you’re going to begin that engagement with people. They are going to read your email. You can put all the content you would have in an e-book, but put in a e-mail campaign. And so day one, you get page one of your e-book. Day two, you get page two of your ebook. Day three, you get page three of the e-book. Day four, there’s a call to action to schedule an initial consultation. And so they are used to seeing your e-mails. So when you continue emailing them to your newsletter, they are going to be more likely to open them. You’ve begun that conversation. Your potential client is getting to know, like and trust you a little more. And so that’s kind of the approach we like to take with our paid advertising. And I think it can work very well for a therapist as well. You know what’s great about paid advertising for private practices, particularly the Google… You know, Google and Facebook are two different things. I know your first question was about Facebook. Were you talking about Google? That’s when somebody is ready to contact a therapist, and they are doing a search for relationship counseling builder or play therapist builder. They are ready to contact [CROSSTALK]….

Joe Sanok: They have been… they are going to buy for a while and it’s like finally time. Yeah [CROSSTALK]…

Perry Rosenbloom: Exact…

Joe Sanok: What I have seen this has been working is using an email opt-in that’s not necessarily a full-length book, but something that’s kind of a quick hit thing. So might be a checklist. It might be five conversations that I have with your teenager. It could be an infographic about the teen brain or something. Then after they get that, then they get that drip email campaign. It seems like that… I have seen it be the most effective for people.

Perry Rosenbloom: What you can do with that? All you just said there Joe, excluding the infographic can be put into a drip email campaign. So five conversations to have with your teenage daughter. That’s a five day drip campaign, right?

Joe Sanok: Sure.

Perry Rosenbloom: Five day, of course. They won conversation number one. Maybe a week later, it’s conversation number two. And so there’s lots of ways that you can utilize once you get their email address. It’s how you engage with them afterwards. And drip email campaign, we found to be really successful at nurturing that relationship. Because just like we spoke about in day one, when somebody comes to your website, they are getting to know you. Unless you are our President, you are not going to just walk up and start kissing around a stranger.

Joe Sanok: [LAUGH].

Perry Rosenbloom: Probably should [00:20:14.18] political here. But there is… the same goes with an email opt-in. So once you get that email address, you need to be cultivating that relationship and nurturing that relationship because they don’t know who you are yet and by having a sequence of emails, you’re able to begin nurturing that relationship more, getting that person to like you more, to trust you more. So that way, maybe they are ready to seek therapy. As soon as they get email number one, they will contact you, maybe they will ready to when they receive email number five. Maybe a year later they are ready to because they have been on your email list and they know, like and trust you by that point. [CROSSTALK]…

Joe Sanok: I don’t follow a question about this. No, no, no… I think it’ helpful. So one consideration that I have heard people say is by the time someone gets to your website, they are usually ready to sign off for counseling. If you have this pop-up that says, sign up for my email list, maybe it distracts. Why don’t we go to Jaime because Jaime, like you haven’t weighed in as much right now. I love to hear your thoughts on that because I totally agree with everything that Perry and John have said about emails and downloads and all of that, especially if you’re doing a paid campaign. But is there a point when it’s like you don’t want them to get on the email list because they are ready to sign up to get a counseling appointment. How did you decide when did you email, when did you just a call the action of the signup for counseling?

Jaime Jay: That’s great. I have three answers [LAUGH].

Joe Sanok: I want four [LAUGH] one for [00:21:44.01].

Jaime Jay: I can do four too.


Jaime Jay: But the first thing is if you are doing paid advertising, never redirect them to your home page. Always you redirect them to a specific that relates to that particular advertisement that invites continuity which in turn builds trust and all of that. I always want to make sure – using the same colors, same brand imaging, same brand, identify and awareness all of that. You really have a think that through and make sure that it is, provides good continuity. The second thing is I never have a pop-up, ever, ever, ever. Take that off. You look at by Google because Google has of what’s six, eight months ago starting ranking mobile first and if you have a pop-up that comes up on of these little devices here, the user all they see is a pop-up, not to mention your desktop what it looks like on there, on your laptop. But if you look at a pop-up on your iPhone, your Samsung whatever it is, that’s all you see. Google dings you for that now. But what’s more important is the user experience. So people get frustrated because they can’t figure out where is the extra click out of it. In some of the companies or so, in Genius now they kind of hide that little x. Like you can’t really see it until you finally, “Yeah, heck, [00:23:00.06] or they are like I am out.” So that’s the second thing. I am not saying you can’t have a pop-up because if we do have a pop-up, just make sure it’s a button that initiates that pop-up on your phone first. So those are two huge things when you come to a site. But that the other thing is with regards to getting to the site and coming on there. What’s amazing is people would usually follow you when you give them clear direction. So the worse thing you can do, and we talked about image sliders earlier. I will tell you right now there is a stuff put out by e-marketing magazine when people have three image sliders, not even one percent of the people that visit a site for the first time look at the third image slider. I’m a huge advocate of not having image sliders. Now if you have one or two, fine. That’s great. Make sure it’s automatic or actually I check that. I say make sure you click on it to move it. You will find that most people will not do that. Why? Because they are not interested. They are in a hurry. Their kids are yelling or they have to get to the next appointment. But with regards to when you land on that page, don’t make it, hey do this. Just give them more of an option. Now they feel a little bit, like, oh, my gosh. Only have one thing to do here. Well, I don’t really want to do that. I don’t know if I am uncomfortable with that. Right? So, always give them two choices and I say if you’re giving him three choices, now they are confused. Oh, my god, I have all these choices. You guys told me if I came here I could do this. So if it’s an ad, make sure it goes directly to that page. If it’s coming to the home page, I highly recommend giving him two choices and if you look at some of the top [00:24:46.21] you look at that story brand. It’s two choices and that just holds true over and over and over and over again when you see the highest conversion rates, you are giving him two choices. That way you are still guiding them, but they still feel like, hey, I am the one in charge here. So…

Joe Sanok: Yeah. And there is some [00:25:04.29] study a few years ago that looked at people opting into retirement plans in a traditional office setting and they found that when they gave them all these like, 17 or whatever different plans they could opt in for, people… I don’t remember what the percent were, but it was like five percent of people would opt in for the retirement plan. Then when they said here’s the three, here’s the aggressive one, here’s the very middle ground one, and here’s the super like low risk one. They just went through the roof in regards to people choosing. So eliminating those things and then if somebody asks for more, you can always offer them something different, but I am totally with you Jaime in reducing the amount of things. John, you can jump in there.

John Clarke: We just did this with a therapist out in California where you land on the home page. It has got all the right branding elements in place and a great tag line and then you immediately give the visitor two options. One is really clear big, bold button that says, I need a counselor now. And the other button says, I’m not sure yet. Right? And that’s… it’s just a really… yeah… really clever way of kind of doing it and giving people… you’re out in a fork in the road and some people are ready to take action now. Or going back to your question like, if I already know about Mental Wellness Counseling and I arrive, yeah, I don’t want to go through this warming up process [LAUGH]…

Joe Sanok: Yeah.

John Clarke: … of like got to download this to get our info and then there is… you know, I don’t want to go want to go through that process of… I’m already warmed up. I’m a hot lead, not a warm lead or a cold lead becoming warm. So giving those options I think is, was a really effective way to increase conversions and make it really clear for people. You don’t have to read more if you are ready to get started. But if you want to read more, here’s where to do it. Click this button. And it’s just so abundantly clear [CROSSTALK] [00:26:44.23]…

Joe Sanok: And for that one button you had for, I’m ready to start counseling now, was that brighter than the, I’m not quite ready?

John Clarke: They were the same actually, but they were both big, bright, and bold, and very differentiated from the rest of the page. I think and I will talk a little bit about this tomorrow, but I think in terms of the future therapists websites, they should and will look a lot more like a landing page or a lead page because that’s really the primary function. It’s to explain the service and get people to take some action. So I think the more obvious you can make it for your site, the better and you’re also going to have better quality scores as well with Google when your pages are just that easy to navigate.

Joe Sanok: Yeah.

John Clarke: There is this statistic that changing your call to action text can increase your click-through rate by as much as 165 percent and the example for a therapist might be a weaker call to action like “Contact US” versus “Get Help Now.” [CROSSTALK] [00:27:47.29]…

Joe Sanok: Scheduling will take something very direct…

John Clarke: Yeah, booked you for a session. Something really clear. Very action oriented. So even thinking about, like, what is that text there. Or you can do something like this therapist that of I need a counselor now versus I’m not sure yet. And just using like that’s the kind of thought that a visitor might have from that thinking through and reacting to your page.

Joe Sanok: Yeah. Well, if you are the listener, if you’re like we are just touching the edge of the iceberg, we are because there is just so much out there. But hopefully you got some very actionable actions, that’s I guess when the action is hopefully actionable, but tomorrow we are going to be talking more about the future of websites. So where maybe we dream the websites are going, things that we know that are happening, things that you should be aware of on the horizon in the next year or two. So thanks so much for letting us into your ears and into your brain. We have John Clarke from Unconditional Media, Jaime Jay from Slapshot Studio and Perry Rosenbloom from Brighter Vision. Guys, thanks so much for being on the Practice of the Practice Podcast today.


Joe Sanok: I am so glad you’re joining us. Just remember that we have tons of resources over at Free e-books, free checklists. So many things that are going to help you grow your practice. So head on over to And tomorrow, we are going to dive into our final day talking all about websites. Here’s a clip:


“John Clarke: Jaime is literally bursting at the same…


John Clarke: … and I already know what he is going to say about this…

Joe Sanok: Aye Jaime…

Jaime Jay: Well, I don’t know, if you know, I’m going to say, what. But CUI, CUI.

Joe Sanok: CUI, what’s CUI?

Jaime Jay: Conversational User Interface. So conversationally driven…

Perry Rosenbloom: Oh, man.”


Joe Sanok: So to find out more about CUI, you are going to tune in tomorrow. Thanks so much for letting us into your ears and into your brain. You rock. And if you want to join Next Level Practice, head on over and get an application, an invite over at It is for people that are starting a practice and want to go faster than their peers. Would love to meet you over there. See you.


This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. It’s given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher or the guest are rendering any legal, accounting, clinical or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one. And thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for that intra music.

[MUSIC] [END OF PODCAST 00:30:20.27]

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