Kelly Higdon and Miranda Palmer from ZynnyMe Talk About Marketing and Clinical Outcomes | POP 606

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A photo of Kelly Higdon and Miranda Palmer is captured. ZynnyMe, founded by Kelly Higdon and Miranda Palmer, was born from two licensed therapists coming together to empower private practice owners to serve at their highest and best, improve clinical outcomes through business planning. Kelly Higdon and Miranda Palmer are featured on Practice of the Practice, a therapist podcast.

What are the tenets of real necessary and successful marketing for therapists? Which conversations should you be having with your clients, and why? What are the best ways for you to gauge successful marketing and clinical outcomes?

In this podcast episode, Joe Sanok speaks with Kelly Higdon and Miranda Palmer from ZynnyMe about marketing and clinical outcomes.

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Meet Kelly Higdon and Miranda Palme

A photo of Kelly Higdon and Miranda Palmer is captured on The Practice of the Practice Podcast. They are the founders of ZynnyMe, and they help other therapists build a successful private practice and a happy life.ZynnyMe, founded by Kelly Higdon and Miranda Palmer, was born from two licensed therapists coming together to empower private practice owners to serve at their highest and best, improve clinical outcomes through business planning, and to break the statistic that mental health clinicians are the worst paid Masters’ degree. Kelly and Miranda provide coaching and training through their Private Practice Community, the Business School Bootcamp for Therapists, and educational webinars, and have helped thousands of clinicians from around the world.

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In This Podcast

  • Current marketing mistakes
  • Essential marketing for therapists
  • Automating marketing for clinical outcomes

Current marketing mistakes

1 – Full Clinicians who think they no longer need to keep marketing

Having lots of calls coming in and constantly referring people out; now is a good time for you to be getting your marketing back on track and aimed specifically at your ideal client.

2 – Clinicians who are starting up their practice think that marketing is going to be easy

The timing of marketing can be tricky to negotiate, however, it is better to overestimate than underestimate when it comes to completing marketing.

Call volume is a great stroke on your ego but it also can be a huge time-waster if it’s not the right fit or if you are a person who might be starting out and you start taking as many clients as you can get, regardless of having a process in there … marketing is a filter, right, for you to find the right clients so that you can get great outcomes for. (Kelly Higdon)

People often go for quantity over quality with marketing. Even if you have the quantity, you need to focus reeling in your ideal patient, because it is better for your practice, your energy, and your clients that you work with your ideal client.

Essential marketing for therapists

A way to track outcomes with clients

Have clear processes in-session to figure out if the therapy is or is not working for the client.

Sit back and explore themes in your work, ask yourself

who are you doing your best work with? With which clients do you get consistently good outcomes? Which clients do you receive poor or moderate outcomes with?

Declutter your practice

Who or what do you need to remove from your practice to make the best use of your time?

What do you maybe need to start saying “no” to? At least for right now so that you can get really great outcomes with a particular group. Once that’s in place if you want to expand into another group and become really great with another group, go and do that, but don’t try and move the needle of outcomes across the board, because it’s really hard to do. (Miranda Palmer)

Track your outcomes

Consider having a conversation with your client where you ask:

  • “How are you feeling now than before when you got into therapy? What did life look like?”
  • “During and after therapy, what does life look like now?”
  • “What were you expecting with therapy?”

Dig into what is going on, what is working, and what is not working in therapy from the client’s perspective.

Even if you are starting out or are in a group practice, one of the things that is often missing in people’s marketing is the ability to speak to what the work is like with them as a therapist … how do you stand out as a clinician? What are the transformational values you provide in therapy? (Kelly Higdon)

Bring the conversations into your marketing

Having these conversations with your clients to understand their pain points enables you to bring in that valuable information into your marketing, and genuinely explain to your clients how it is that you can help them with your therapy.

Are you connecting to the pain points of your clients in your marketing? Are you demonstrating your transformational values? Are you inviting them into another positive step of action from that place?

Automating marketing for clinical outcomes

Overtime with marketing automation and conscientious conversations with your clients:

  1. There is less to adjust in your marketing, and
  2. You are going to be able to take those conversations about what is happening right now and incorporate that information into your marketing.
  3. Be consistent. Pick one or a few social media platforms and dedicate your time and energy to building a following on them. Choose one that you enjoy. Your work will be compounded over time, so keep at it.

You gotta like what you are doing but also to keep that sustained energy, to have a purpose, you’ve got to know that what you’re doing matters. (Kelly Higdon)

Useful Links mentioned in this episode:

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Meet Joe Sanok

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Joe Sanok helps counselors to create thriving practices that are the envy of other counselors. He has helped counselors to grow their businesses by 50-500% and is proud of all the private practice owners that are growing their income, influence, and impact on the world. Click here to explore consulting with Joe.

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Podcast Transcription

[JOE SANOK]
This is the Practice of the Practice podcast with Joe Sanok, session number 606.

I am Joe Sanok your host, and welcome to the Practice of the Practice podcast. If you are brand new here, welcome, really glad you’re here. It’s been 606 episodes. You’ve got some work to do my friend, if you just came by. So go back, listen to all the amazing episodes. So we hope that your world is going awesome this week. We’ve got Kelly Higdon and Miranda Palmer from ZynnyMe, two friends of mine. We have put on conferences together, we’ve known each other for a long time, and it’s always so fun to have them on the show. Kelly and Miranda. Welcome back to the Practice of the Practice podcast.
[KELLY]
Nice to be here with you.
[MIRANDA]
Yes.
[JOE]
Yes. So I want to start with, you two are such experts around marketing and clinical outcomes and business, and you have your business school bootcamp, and you’re always doing really cool, innovative things. I think you have the pulse of what’s going on in the industry in a really unique way and we’d love to start with around marketing. What are the things you’re seeing people just screw up or do wrong or pitfalls in marketing that they’re messing up? Because I know that you see a lot of mess ups in people, and then you help them shift it. Like what are people messing up in marketing right now?
[MIRANDA]
I think two main things I see people messing up one is that people who are full or over full that have a waiting list that they think they don’t need to worry about their marketing when in fact, when they’re really full and they’re getting a ton of calls and they can’t get back to people and they’re not getting the right calls in, that’s a really good time to spend a lot of time on marketing. And then I think the second thing is people starting out and starting from scratch, thinking that well, there’s so many people that need therapy and all these other practices are completely full. Marketing is going to be easy and I’m not going to have to do anything.
[JOE]
So not really knowing the timing of the marketing depending on how your phase of practice?
[KELLY]
Right. And I think a lot of people don’t see the connection from the marketing to the clinical outcomes. So sure, call volume is a great stroke on your ego, but it also can be a huge time-waster if it’s not the right fit, or if you are a person who might be starting out and you start taking as many clients as you can get, regardless of having a process in there through your marketing. Marketing is a filter, right for you to find the right clients that you can get great outcomes for. So we go for quantity over quality, often with the marketing. And even if we have a lot of quantity our encouragement is that you need to focus and kind of dial things in because it’s better for your practice, your energy. It’s better for the clients too. Imagine this client’s journey and what they’re going through, the distress that they’re in and then they’re kind of not finding the best that’s for them. And it’s okay. We can’t be the end-all-be-all to everybody.
[JOE]
Yes. So let’s think about someone that’s kind of brand new to all this, and just a quick masterclass on the basics of marketing that maybe the pillars of practice that we should have around marketing. What are some of those basic things that every single practice needs to have in place?
[MIRANDA]
I think that every single practice needs to have a way to track their outcomes with clients and have really clear process for conversations to figure out what is and isn’t working. And they need to be able to sit back and really explore themes in their work and figure out who am I doing my best work with? Who am I getting consistently good outcomes with? And who am I getting consistently poor outcomes with and who am I giving consistently moderate outcomes with? Realistically we need to look at, we only have so much time as a resource and you’re not going to be able to get excellent with all three of those groups. So who do you need to kind of like cut out of your practice? Maybe what do you need to start saying no to at least right now, so that you can get really great outcomes with a particular group and once that’s really in place, if you want to expand into another group and become really great with another group, go and do that. But don’t try to move the needle on outcomes kind of a little bit across the board, because it’s really hard to do. It just doesn’t happen.
[JOE]
I want to dig into that Miranda. So how can people track those outcome? Like what do you recommend, or maybe are there clinicians that have done that really well, because sometimes I think people will say, “Yes, I want to do that,” and then it’s like, “Well, how do I do that?” What are some practical ways people have really dug into those outcomes?
[MIRANDA]
I think realistically, at the very basic level, people do use like Feedback and Form Treatment through Scott Miller and they do the outcome rating scale and the session rating scale. But I think it ultimately comes back to a conversation and a script where you say, “Hey, how were you feeling before you got into therapy? What did life look like now? What does life look like now? What were you expecting with therapy? What has happened and what hasn’t? Like really digging into what is going on, what is working just from the client’s perspective.
[JOE]
And why is that important for the marketing discussion to stay there? I think it’s great that you’re starting there. Tell us why starting there helps inform marketing.
[KELLY]
Because when you are starting out or even if you are in group practice, one of the things that is often missing in people’s marketing is the ability to speak to what the work is like with them as a therapist. In bootcamp, we have a saying, I don’t compete. I stand out. How do you stand out as a clinician? What are the transformational values you provide in therapy? It’s more than I listen and I’m imperfect. You know, this is about really honing in on your unique way of working so that when you get this information, a conversation like this that we teach in our masterclass, it gives you information for the clinical work, but then it also gives you language for your marketing messaging.
[JOE]
I love that, especially the, I don’t compete, I stand out because I’m such a believer in that. And even in this space to collaborate with people like you it’s like, I don’t think any of us see each other as competition. It’s only helped us to work together and to share ideas and to level up. And it’s just so important to have that mindset. So I love that you’re starting with that language before you ever get into the techniques of marketing.
[MIRANDA]
Well, and that language and that conversation will also give you information and data that you can use in your search engine optimization, keyword research, and deciding what kind of social media spot that you might be, whether you’re going to use, what kind of hashtags you might use. But when we don’t even have the conversation with people, when we go through our, we have a masterclass that we do and we actually give people a script on exactly what questions to ask, how they’re clinically relevant and then how to translate that into shifting your marketing message and your marketing plan, based on that data that you get from your current clients, people often don’t even know, what was the person actually like Googling at two in the morning? What were they searching? What were they experiencing? That’s helpful for keyword research, but it also gives you a much clearer vision of what they were actually looking for, as opposed to just what I was looking for a therapist.

Why were you looking for a therapist? Well, I was Googling like ways to sleep at night. I haven’t slept in weeks. What does this look like? To really get clear about what was happening inside of the client. And I think the other thing that’s so cool about this process, while we teach it in regards to getting your marketing on track, what happens when you have these conversations with clients is that then they become more aware of the progress that they’ve made. It’s sort of like, I don’t particularly like this metaphor, but when somebody is taking pictures over time and they’re looking in the mirror every day and they don’t see a change and then they see a picture of where they were a year ago and where they are now and they go, “Oh, wow, I made a big transformation. I have shifted a lot.”

When we sit down and have clients take that snapshot, they become aware of the change that they’ve had and then they get to feel the feelings about that. They get to celebrate those successes. Then guess what, if they’re more aware of the progress they’ve made, they’re also more likely to refer other clients and get excited about their progress and get excited about the therapy. And if there is something that is not working, they’re bringing up like, “Hey, here are the things that I haven’t gotten. I was hoping would change and haven’t,” then that’s again an area where we get to dig in and go, “Oh my gosh, I’m so glad you told me. Let’s focus on that and let’s get you there.”
[KELLY]
It’s crazy how, it’s interesting. Let me rephrase that. It’s interesting to think about how a conversation with your client at a micro level can have an impact on mental health care at a macro level. Because what Miranda saying is this whole idea of if this client sees that transformation, tells other people, normalizes therapy in their community, that spreads. So your therapeutic work, though it feels very insular in that office or in that Zoom room or wherever you’re having your session, it’s not. It really does impact the field as a whole.
[JOE]
Yes. So what are some other kind of pillars of practice around marketing that are essential for every practice to have?
[KELLY]
After that conversation, how do you take that language and you move it into a messaging? One of the things we often see is that people don’t take time to connect to the pain of their clients to say, “Hey, I see what you’re going through and calling it out.” Rather, we like more specificity than this general. Like you feel anxious, you feel depressed, but instead, really getting more of an emotional connection, taking some time in the messaging to demonstrate your tunement to the common struggles of your ideal clients. And then people are missing speaking to what makes them unique and what the process is like and then what the next steps are. So that messaging piece is one of the core essential things for your marketing. Without that you could do all the things. You could have a podcast, you could do a social media post, but you’re missing what makes the connection and the attunement between you and the client for that, you’re missing that bridge, so to speak.

And then after the messaging, we do talk a lot about like different techniques that we’re seeing working right now. We still kind of stand by the website being the hub with that messaging. And anywhere that you show up in the world, that message needs to be congruent and consistent. So your directory profiles, social media, all of that, look at what you’re creating and are you connecting to the pain? Are you demonstrating some transformational value that you know how to help take them from one point to the next? And then are you inviting them into another action from that place?
[KELLY]
So when you see that inconsistency across platforms, what does that sometimes look like, in regards to what you said, be consistent across platforms. The assumption is people aren’t doing that. What does that typically look like when it’s that kind of hodgepodge?
[MIRANDA]
It can look like, if I go to your social media feeds, either serving everybody, you’re trying to speak to everyone, you’re doing a reel on this person and on this phone, and I can’t get a real sense of who you are, it can look like websites that are really general, where I don’t know what makes you unique or why I would want to see you. And it just feels like a lot of psychobabble and gobbledy goop, so to speak, whatever that means.
[KELLY]
Yes, I mean, you get into that space where I’m going from therapist’s sites to therapist sites, and they all look and sound exactly the same, and they’re trying to speak to everybody and they’re speaking to nobody. So for me as the client, or even as a therapist, trying to make a referral, I don’t have any sense of what this person is doing. I think it’s fine if, in terms of consistency, if somebody let’s say they have two niches and they found that one niche in particular is more on Facebook, so their Facebook page is really geared towards that niche and the other niches on Instagram. So they gear their Instagram material to the other niche. That’s fine. But I think what it ultimately comes down to is people are putting all this general information up kind of everywhere and they’re saying, well, blogging doesn’t work. Social media doesn’t work and directories don’t work. And ultimately, it often comes back to have they really sat down and got clarity on what they’re doing and what the client experience is like. It’s really overwhelming in most cities to go in and search for a therapist, not having an idea of what therapists do and don’t do.

And even from city to city and county to county and state to state, you can go into the keyword research and find that there’s a lot of variability, even in terms of the terms that people are searching for. We have so many different licensures across the country, and so many different ways to get help and there’s not consistency for clients in terms of what terms they’re using. Are we looking more for a psychologist or a psychoanalyst or psychotherapist or a counselor or counseling? So we have to really get tied into, in our communities, what are these people really looking for and searching for? How do we make sure that we show up in that place with a message that they can go, “Oh my gosh. Yes, I’m not alone. I’m heard. I’m normal. Change is possible and I believe that this person is going to be that for me.” Like in every treatment planner out there, one of the very first things across everything is installation of hope.

I remember looking at that when I was in grad school and newly licensed, trying to figure out how to write treatment plans, installation of hope and what does that mean? And that place of it’s exhausting to feel stuck. It’s exhausting to feel like, is this ever going to get any better? And just the idea that somebody could say, “Oh, I have hope this can get better. I don’t have to be in this pain. I can have a life that more closely aligns. I can feel more connected to my partner. I can feel confident as a parent, my kids can learn how to be great, happy, well, adjusted adults.” Like whatever that thing is that they’re really searching for, we need to be very clear on what that looks like and how we can help.
[MIRANDA]
I think too, the other thing we do see is that people might be really clear and they might be very targeted and cohesive with their messaging, but they’re missing the part of the message with the call to action. So you could have a huge email list or a ton of followers on Instagram, but is it converting into anything beyond that? Is it moving the needle for your business? That’s something that is important to look at. So those three areas of the messaging, you need all three for it to be working for your marketing. So the other flip side is because we’re seeing people doing really well on reels and these kinds of things, but are they converting them from the social media popularity into their practice or into their course or whatever it is that they have to offer?
[JOE]
Yes. I think that those vanity metrics are so unimportant compared to, are you actually getting people that are working with you in the way that you want them to work with you?
[MIRANDA]
Sure. Some people may feel like, no, that’s my gift back. I’m just bringing education. That’s fine but we’re talking here in the context of building a private practice, creating a sustainable income that provides great outcomes for clients. And in that context we want to see conversion happening. So when you look at your marketing, you focus where the conversion is the highest and then you also add maybe in, for a quarter like a test. So leverage what works and then find a little growth edge.
[KELLY]
I think that’s the piece right now. It’s been a tough couple of years. There’s a lot happening out in the world and a lot of us, a lot of therapists are feeling really pulled in a lot of directions in terms of schooling and homeschooling and kids and taking care of family members who are ill and just lots of different pieces. So we have less and less time sometimes to delve into our marketing. I think it becomes really important to be clear about what really works and what doesn’t and we’re past the point of throwing spaghetti at the wall and doing everything because we have so much time and energy. As a community, as a profession, we’re pretty burnout. We’ve been doing really in-depth work while going through a really impactful time.
[MIRANDA]
It’s called trauma where we’re experiencing the same trauma as our clients. I mean, never before. I mean, it has happened before, but not in my time as a therapist, have I seen this as strongly that you are in the same trauma as your clients in such a massive way.
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[JOE]
So then just from the clinical outcomes standpoint, I know that we don’t want to be doing everything manually, everything, having conversations with our clients, how do we start to automate some of the marketing or clinical outcomes so that it’s not as high touch over time? Like, of course at the beginning, there’s going to be more that you’re learning, you’re setting up, but how do we start to move into having it be more of an automation within a team or a to have this, not just be something manually that we do?
[MIRANDA]
I think one thing, in terms of the conversations, these conversations should always happen. They are clinical and it’s not something that ever we want that not to be a touch. We are always blown away in sort of a bad way that we have thousands of therapists that will come into our classes, talking about clinical outcomes, who will say I’ve been scared to have these conversations. I’ve never talked about these things in this way with my clients. And that is alarming. Kelly has been in a training with Scott Miller where therapists actually got up and they were upset with the idea of asking their clients about outcomes and asking them what they’re wanting for us. The therapist stood up and said, “We’re not going to do that. They don’t know what they need.”

Like there’s a huge part of our profession, our population that has not been trained or supported, or I can’t think of another word, but they haven’t been trained on how to have these conversations and how to really be attached and connected in a healthy boundaried way with their clients —
[KELLY]
Which is a corrective attunements to have this in a relationship.
[MIRANDA]
So that part is there, but in terms of the automation, what happens over time is one there’s less to adjust in your marketing. Two, you’re going to be able to take those conversations and what is happening right now, as you kind of notice shifts in your overall client population and go to your marketing person or your ghost writing blog writer, or what have you and say, “Hey, here’s some conversations that are happening.” Maybe you even send them like a video message and say, “I’ve talked about this general issue in theme with 10 of my clients this week. So here’s what I’ve been saying. Can you turn that into a blog? Here are the three top tips. Here’s this thing.” Maybe it’s like a five or 10 minute video message you send over to your copywriter and then they turn that into a blog. They do some keyword research, get the SEO and then put it into your website then also turn that into your social media work.
[KELLY]
So outsourcing is one of the ways I will say, instead of automation, I might propose that we do kind of more of a minimalist approach, that over time you get more honed in and you start getting rid of the stuff that doesn’t work for your practice. You know, when people start out, they do all the things, they do all the directories, I’ve seen it. People get on every social media platform instead of just being really selective. So when you get more selective and kind of cold down stuff to what’s essential you’ll even need less automation, also remembering that what you create today has compound interest over time. For example, some of our most popular blogs, one of them is from 2012. That’s the beauty of your website and things like that. The effort you put in now will pay off tenfold over time, as long as you are consistent. Of course, there’s automation tools and things like that but we really want to say, how can you get the filter so dialed in that you’re not spending your time answering the phone for people that are misdirected and in the wrong place? How do you get it so called down that you only need a few hours a month or whatever to get things set up, whether you are outsourcing or you have automation tools, but you’re just doing the essentials?
[JOE]
Yes. I think that’s such a wise thing to talk, especially about the minimalism of it. Also when people ask me which social media they should be on, my first question is always which one do you like the most? Because it’s like, so say you build a huge audience on LinkedIn, but you absolutely hate LinkedIn. Do you want to keep feeding that monster? If you love Instagram, but it’s like, some people just love LinkedIn and they just want to be businessy all the time. And it’s like, okay, that’s their thing, but just start with which ones do you like? Try to do it as well as you can in the one you like. Then if that’s not working, you can always move into the crap you don’t want to do but let’s say you start with trying to have some joy in our lives.
[MIRANDA]
I like to look at what do you like and what is your client like, and where are they at? So can we find some kind of overlap and mid place in terms of, if you know from the beginning that your clients are not on LinkedIn, but that’s where you like to be, then you need to sit down and explore like, “Okay, well, does that really make sense for me?” And if they are on Facebook, for example, is it something where you go, “Well, I just don’t know Facebook or like, no, I really know Facebook. There’s lots of ads. There’s lots of drama. There’s a lot of political things. I’m going to make the decision not to be there because it doesn’t make sense for me, but I also know my clients are in this other place. So that’s where I’m going to show up for them.”
[KELLY]
It’s easier to show up when you have worked through the imposter syndrome and you’ve gotten the feedback from your clients, and you’re really clear on what it is that you are offering to the world. It makes it a lot easier to lean into some of those learning curves and things like that, because there’s a motivation behind it that’s based and rooted in truth and fact from your clients. I agree, you got to like what you’re doing, but also to keep that sustained energy, to have purpose, you’ve got to know that what you’re doing matters.
[MIRANDA]
I think that’s a huge piece. We see this when we teach therapists these kinds of skills and we take them through the process and they say, “I didn’t even realize how much imposter syndrome was showing up. I didn’t even realize how this was. I was truly questioning. I had forgotten that I do really good work with clients. I didn’t even realize how good my work was.” I just had a conversation with a client who I thought I didn’t see any change and then when we finally had this conversation, there’s been a ton of change, and I walked away gobsmacked by the shift that has happened. And now, I really want to go out into the world and scream from the rooftops because I want, I know there’s a hundred more clients out there like this that were in that same kind of pain and I now feel really confident I can help them.
[KELLY]
I feel like maybe this is a tangent, but I’m going to do it anyway. I feel like it is so important for private practice owners to do this work because when we have tech bros in San Francisco coming up with apps and things like that, that is not the same as what we do as clinicians. And our society is going to be misinformed or they’re going to be charmed by great marketing and that isn’t always backed up with solid outcomes. And therapy is a different transformational healing art than getting on some app and getting support, not saying that those things don’t work and aren’t helpful, but we, as clinicians need to take a stand to demonstrate the value of what we provide while we continue to improve our craft, to decolonize our craft, while we continue to innovate. But right now when I see things like Betterhelp and Talkspace, it looks like it’s a replacement and really there is no replacement for who you are as a clinician, because what makes your therapy work is your ability to attune and Betterhelp and Talkspace and all those places can not compete with that because you’re standing out. So take the time, take moments, do some of this clinical kind of deep dive. You will be better for it as a clinician, your clients will be better for it and the field of psychotherapy will be better for it.
[MIRANDA]
I think this goes back to that idea, and it’s something you’ve always really touted and supported and I’ve always appreciated that, that we do need to create time to work on our business and not just in it. And that idea that we can just automate a business and set things up where we never have to like sit down and like touch it and explore and take eight hours a quarter to just sit down and think, “Am I doing work that really matters? How am I feeling clinically? How am I feeling emotionally, spiritually, physically? How is my caseload feeling? Is there creative time in terms of what I’m putting out in the world? Do I feel like I’m being impactful? Are my finances really on target or am I feeling stressed every time my taxes are due because I created a business that works really well if there were no taxes in the world? But with taxes in the world, I’ve created a business that actually isn’t sustainable. Have I created a business that works really well, and that makes great money, but where I’m afraid to take a sick day. I can’t take a vacation. If I lose one clinician, I can’t pay myself that month.” Whatever the scenario is, I think there are a lot of therapists that are working 50, 60, 70, 80 hours a week and in most cases that’s going to impact your clinical work.

That’s one of the big things I see with again, going back to Kelly, bringing up Betterhelp and Talkspace, there’s some great things about what they’re doing, but when you really talk to the clinicians on the back end of it, they say, here’s how many clients I need to be able to make this a sustainable income. And by the time they do that, they’re like, “I am about to [inaudible 00:32:07] because I have 80 clients on my caseload.
[KELLY]
Yes, or they are pressing the people that provide the work so they can, it’s great that we’re making mental health more accessible, but at the cost of our therapists’ wellbeing, it’s not.
[MIRANDA]
Yes. They’re like moving from the agency standpoint of like, I want to get all the agencies so I want to go and work for this private practice and become a business owner. And then they basically turn in one caustic environment for another in many cases. And because we weren’t taught how to set appropriate boundaries about our caseload’s, how to be really honest about that, how to even be aware of how different is it to be a business owner versus to be a clinical employee. As a clinical employee in a 40 hour work week I might, if I had a lot of good support, maybe I could do 30 sessions, maybe, but literally there’s nothing else for me to do. I’ve got great clinical support. I’m not answering phones. I’m not doing any of the rest of it. Like here are all the pieces that I have put in place, but there’s no way as a business owner that you could do that. You are the phone person. Even if you outsource it, you’re going to still be on the phone. You are the bookkeeper. Even if you have bookkeeping, you still got to get the information and you need to review it.

Even if you have an accountant, you still got to get the information over the accountant. Even if you have a marketing director, you probably still have to share some information and look over what they’re doing to make sure that it’s working and that what you’re paying for is what you’re getting. We don’t have to become experts in everything, but we do need a certain amount of expertise to ensure that we are hiring the right people and that we’re overseeing them and that nobody else is kind of like going to make or break our business where if they leave our business goes away.
[JOE]
Yes. So Kelly, the last question that I always ask is if every private practitioner in the world were listening right now, what would you want them to know? Then we’ll go to Miranda after you.
[KELLY]
I feel like I want you to give me all the times I have answered this before [crosstalk] No, no, no, but like send me notes before I am —
[MIRANDA]
Maybe it’s okay, maybe people need to hear it, like the people who are just listening for the first time. Like you need to hear the same message over and over.
[KELLY]
I’d probably have said it before, but I think the message for me to clinicians out there is that the world needs you and the world needs you in a way where you can stand in your truth and what is healthiest and best for you so that you have longevity in this work and you are unique. You do more than just listen. That’s not therapy. Therapy is so much more than that and it’s a diverse art and science that you contribute to. So be clear on that contribution and stand out into the world with it.
[JOE]
Miranda, what about you?
[MIRANDA]
You, therapists every single one of you matter. We need you in this profession. We need you in this world. There are people out there in the world today who their lives and their people and relation, their children, partners, what have you, they’re all going to be changed based on the work that you’re going to do in the future. They don’t even know you and their whole family line is going to be shifted. There is nobody like you, and that’s a good thing.
[JOE]
That’s so good. So you have a masterclass coming up just around the corner. Tell us a little bit about that masterclass and what people will get out of it.
[KELLY]
Yes, it starts September 21st through September 24th and we go over some of what we talked about today. We give you a script for having these outcome conversations. We give you a formula for how to take the results from those conversations into a message that works for you and then we have a day of case studies where we share what other clinicians are doing in their marketing and what really does make a successful marketing plan. And we just talk about the overall contribution to that marketing plan for your entire business plan. We’re giving away prizes every day if you do your homework. There’s gift cards and things like that. We’re giving away membership to our bootcamp and a cash.
[MIRANDA]
And the masterclass is free. This is a masterclass that we’ve literally had people come in and say, “I spend $5,000 on a program and we did in six weeks, what you guys just did better in three days. I can’t believe that you’re giving all this away for free.” It’s because we know that it’s needed. We know that therapists can benefit and it’s going to impact our communities and our profession and we want it to be absolutely accessible to everybody, period.
[KELLY]
Yes, so come and join us. That’ll be fun.
[JOE]
People sign up?
[MIRANDA]
They go to zynnyme.com, then just click on free, and you’ll see the little thing at the top of the page that says “masterclass,” just to make it easy peasy. [Z-Y-N-N-Y-M-E].com and then click on free and check it out.
[JOE]
Awesome. And we’ll put links to that in the show notes as well. Kelly and Miranda, thank you so much for being on the Practice of the Practice podcast.
[MIRANDA+KELLY]
Thanks for having us.

Oh my gosh. Love it. Awesome. We’ll have an awesome day.

Well, go take some action. You know, you listen to these conversations and sometimes feel like listening is enough, but it absolutely is not. Don’t just consume. Go actually take some action. Hold out your calendar right now. If you’re driving, don’t do it. Just pull over because it’s that important, figure out when you’re going to start evaluating your marketing, figure out how you’re going to have those conversations with your clients. The work you do matters. We don’t want you to burn out. We want you to keep doing this important work. So keep doing that, keep leveling up, pushing yourself, but also recognize the self-care that you need, especially during this really unique time in human history. Pay attention to what your body is telling you as well. Get to sleep, eat well, all those things that we know are good for us. So keep all that up.

Also, if you are at the point where you’re just so stinking busy, that you probably need to add a clinician or to Group Practice Launch is the program for you. Over the next six months, Alison Pidgeon and Whitney Owens, who are two of the consultants here with Practices of the Practice both have mega group practices and also oversee Group Practice Boss. They, for the next six months are going to be teaching you how to go from being a solopreneur to then being a group practice owner. So you can sign up for that or read more about that over at practiceofthepractice.com/grouppracticelaunch.

Thank you so much for letting me into your ears and into your brain. Have an amazing day. I’ll talk to you soon.

Special thanks to the band Silence is Sexy for your intro music. We really like it. And this podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, the publisher, or the guests are rendering legal, accounting, clinical, or other professional information. If you want a professional, you should find one.