How can you integrate faith into your private practice? Should you integrate faith into your private practice? Can faith be an asset to your private practice and not a hindrance?
In this podcast episode, Whitney Owens speaks to Kelly Higdon about faith as an asset in private practice.
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Meet Kelly Higdon
Kelly Higdon is an LMFT turned business coach who co-founded ZynnyMe and the Business School Bootcamp for Therapists where she helps therapists improve their clinical outcomes while increasing their income.
From her training in seminary to her experience as a private practice owner to now becoming a coach, these experiences have all influenced how she sees private practice as a place for innovation and creativity in mental health care. It is her hope to reduce burnout and to increase personal growth in each therapist she works with.
In This Podcast
- Kelly’s background
- How seminary rocked Kelly’s faith
- Kelly’s thoughts on Christian counseling as a business
- Should you niche as a Christian counselor?
- Expressing your Christian values in your practice in an appropriate way
- How religion can lead to burnout but faith is an asset
- Kelly’s Coaching and Business school
- What every Christian counselor needs to know
What a lot of people don’t tell you about seminary is that it can really shift your faith and change perspectives for you and so as I got more into counseling I decided, you know, I don’t want to be in the church doing this, I want to be in the world doing the work.
How seminary rocked Kelly’s faith
Statistically, people lose their faith for 6-7 years, on average, after completing seminary. Kelly went through a post-modernist deconstruction of her faith because of seminary, which ended up playing into how she helps people in her practice today. She attracted people who were wrestling with where they land in their beliefs and how it impacts their lives. It’s one thing to go to church and read scripture, it’s a whole other thing to dissect origins and the evolution of your faith. There are a lot of absolutes that we get taught growing up and you start to see that maybe things aren’t so absolute.
Kelly’s thoughts on Christian counseling as a business
I also believe in a world of niche that our practices should reflect the communities we serve. We need black therapists, we need therapists who are immigrants. We need therapists who speak other languages. We need therapists of all different faiths because that is the community we serve. They are different colors, different genders, different sexual orientations, all of that.
We do a service to our communities and the mental health field when we niche. It allows us to enhance our training when we have a focus on what our clinical skills are. When you have a niche, like Christian counseling, it can really help inform your training, education, ongoing supervision, and clinical consultation.
Should you niche as a Christian counselor?
Fear comes with any niche but you are not here to serve everybody. That is impossible and wrong. We all need each other, we all have our place and parts we serve, so it’s more a matter of wanting it to be how you show up clinically. Even in Christian counseling, there’s a lot of variety, so it comes down to what is being used as a tool in the room. Even if you say that you provide Christian counseling, you’re going to have to do better in describing what that means and how it shows up in the therapy room.
Expressing your Christian values in your practice in an appropriate way
It starts with your website – it needs to be clear about who you serve and how you can help. You won’t lack variety, in terms of clients, but you will get focused on where you market your practice when you’re working from a Christian lens. Your messaging needs to be on point and you need to be clear as to how you use faith as part of the clinical intervention. Where you land in terms of your integration, ends up in your messaging and that messaging ends up in how you talk about your practice. Your faith will change the way you do an assessment for example. How do you ask questions about faith, religion, spiritual practice, etc? You may ask for more details that someone who doesn’t have that experience in their life. It can show up in subtle ways and also very direct ways.
How religion can lead to burnout but faith is an asset
Religion, in terms of Dogma, has a set of tenets, rules that structure the relationship of boundaries versus faith. Faith in your relationships gets mirrored back to you – who you are, who you were created to be, what your gifts are. There’s discernment happening but when we are unbalanced and living in rigidity because of the rules, it can squelch the dynamic part of having faith. If you are stuck and really trying to meet the status quo and follow the rules to the tee, you will burn out. When people are rigid, they have certain expectations and goals. Sometimes these can be motivating, but sometimes they can be used to oppress ourselves. Faith can bring in that creativity that is lacking. When you look at outcomes, it is attunement and the ability to connect and build trust that is the number one thing that creates positive outcomes in therapy.
Kelly’s Coaching and Business School
Kelly works primarily online and runs Business School Boot Camp with her business partner, Miranda. It’s the largest online training system for therapists and covers everything from starting to growing, to group practice – everything that you weren’t taught in grad school. Their focus is on how everything you do in your business influences the outcomes and looks at how to increase your income while improving your outcomes clinically.
Kelly also has coaching clients who she sees throughout the year and they have a retreat once a year. She also offers 10 hours of free training and suggests the one on “niche” – it is good to look at if you are grappling with who to work with in your practice as a Christian business owner for example.
What every Christian counselor needs to know
That they are enough as they are. That just showing up as themselves, holding that space for love and attention and attunement is enough, and that is the gift that they will always be giving to their clients, whether they call it Christian or not.
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Meet Whitney Owens
Whitney is a licensed professional counselor and owns a growing group practice in Savannah, Georgia. Along with a wealth of experience managing a practice, she also has an extensive history working in a variety of clinical and religious settings, allowing her to specialize in consulting for faith-based practices and those wanting to connect with religious organizations.
Knowing the pains and difficulties surrounding building a private practice, she started this podcast to help clinicians start, grow, and scale a faith-based practice. She has learned how to start and grow a successful practice that adheres to her own faith and values. And as a private practice consultant, she has helped many clinicians do the same.
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Welcome to the Faith in Practice podcast. I’m your host Whitney Owens recording live from Savannah, Georgia. I’m a licensed professional counselor, group practice owner, and private practice consultant. In each week through the podcast and through my stories or amazing interviews, we are going to help you learn how to start, grow, and scale your private practice from a faith-based perspective.
Today, you’re listening to episode number 26, an interview that I did with Kelly Higdon on faith as an asset in private practice. I really love talking to other counselors and other consultants and you might feel this way too, because we can just dive right into the nitty-gritty stuff, like the deep stuff. And I really appreciate that about Kelly as she was willing to be so raw and authentic on the podcast and talk about some topics that are a little difficult to talk about as far as faith and religion, and the stigmas attached to those. Kelly does have a background in the kind of ministry or seminary kind of world. And so she brings a really wonderful perspective and understanding faith and how we can integrate our faith into our practice, or maybe ways that we might not want to integrate our faith into our practice. And I love how she discusses the idea that faith can be an asset when we’re moving in our practices instead of something that can be a hindrance. And for some people, when they think of religion, it can feel like a bunch of rules and a bunch of hindrances. I even find that in my own life that I kind of have to go back to not obeying the rules, but really looking at what is my motivation and what is the center of what I’m doing. And it’s about my faith. It’s about a relationship. And so Kelly and I talked about that in the interview today. So I think you’re gonna really enjoy what she has to say. She’s a wonderful resource and a great person to connect with. So we’re going to go ahead and get into the episode number 26: Faith as an Asset in your Private Practice.[WHITNEY]: Welcome to the Faith in Practice podcast. Today I’m going to be interviewing Kelly Higdon. Kelly is an LMFT turned business coach who founded ZynnyMe and the business school boot camp for therapists where she helps therapists improve their clinical outcomes while increasing their income. From training in seminary to experience in private practice as an owner and now becoming a coach, these experiences have all influenced how she sees private practice as a place for innovation and creativity in mental healthcare. It’s our hope to reduce burnout and increase personal growth in each therapist she works with. Kelly, I’m so excited to have you on the show today. [KELLY]: I really appreciate you having me and taking the time. I love the theme of this podcast. [WHITNEY]: Thank you. Yeah, well, I think you’re gonna have a lot of great stuff for the audience today. The first question I want to ask which I’m guessing you get this a lot is: tell me what ZynnyMe, the name of ZynnyMe, and how it came about? [KELLY]: Yeah, it comes from… So I co-founded ZynnyMe with Miranda Palmer, and it was an old chat handle she had back before there was Facebook and that sort of thing. And she’d always used Zynny, and then I came up with some silly idea to add me to it as sort of like, we made up our own word basically. And while we coach people to name their practices, and we’re always like, you should spell it out and make sure that it’s really clear and easy because we didn’t. Even this weekend we were in Houston and someone’s like, “So your email address…”, and she’s like, “Z-Y-…”, and we do this every time. But it’s a silly name and now it is stuck. So we can’t get rid of it. [WHITNEY]: Yeah. Well, you have a good story and that’s what’s really important. [KELLY]: Yeah. [WHITNEY]: So great. Well, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself as far as your background, and… I know you went to seminary at some point and kind of started private practice. Tell us a little bit about that journey. [KELLY]: Yeah. So I originally went to seminary because I was going to become a pastor. Then I wanted to focus on pastoral counseling. And I used to be a youth minister. A lot of people don’t know this about me, because, I don’t know. They just know me as a business coach, but I used to be a youth minister and I thought I was going to go into ministry full time. But as… What a lot of people don’t tell you about seminary is that it can really shift your faith and change perspectives for you and so as I got more into counseling I decided, you know, I don’t want to be in the, in the church doing this, I wanted to be in the world doing the work. And so after seminary, I worked in nonprofits and in the county and I worked my way up in the county, supervising one of the largest mental health clinics in the county. And then I went out on my own, and I built a practice there, and then I sold it a few years back, just the assets of the practice I sold. And then I’ve been coaching full time since 2010. But this has been my solo thing for the past, I don’t know, five years or so. [WHITNEY]: So I’m gonna jump on what you said about seminary here. I actually almost went to seminary, toured a few and figured out it wasn’t for me, I went into the counseling world. So you said your faith kind of got rocked, I guess, in seminary. What is… What was that like? [KELLY]: I mean, I think the statistic and I haven’t looked it up recently, but back then it was like most people lose their faith for six to seven years on average after completing seminary. There was like a really high majority of people that go to seminary, I would I need to find the research on it. But you start to see where things, you know, where your theology kind of comes from, beliefs come from. And I would say, I kind of went through like a postmodernist deconstruction of my faith because of the seminary. And that actually ended up playing into how I help people in my practice. I attracted a lot of people who were waking up to what they were taught and what their experience was in the world and trying to wrestle with where do they land in their belief and how that impacts how they live their life. [WHITNEY]: Yeah, yeah, I remember… I can think of many people that I know from seminary who either did other occupations when they were finished or people who flat out have said that, like, I lost my faith afterward. I… Do you have anything to say as to why that happens? [KELLY]: Oh, I think because it’s one thing to show up to church. And it’s one thing to read Scripture. It’s a whole other thing to dissect origins, and the evolution of how your faith or how the church is what it is today. And for me, personally… My husband is also a classics major, so we went to Italy, for example, and he kind of started going through his own kind of deconstruction as well, seeing the ties between mythology and Christianity and those kinds of things. And it’s not something people talk about. That’s, that’s the unfortunate thing. Whenever I find other people who understand kind of postmodernity, narrative approaches and apply that to theology, it’s like this secret kinship of, oh, you get it, and we can talk about it without there being stigma. I think, yeah, it’s just delving in more. You start to realize… I mean, I was raised in a very southern baptist household. And so there was a lot of absolutes that were taught to me. And so you start to see that maybe things aren’t so absolute. I think faith is just like any other kind of development. You know, you go through different processes and, you know, there’s the child who believes exactly what they’re told, and then they start to challenge that and come to their own development and growth and the same thing happens in your faith. [WHITNEY]: That’s so true. And, you know, even with our…with your age, it’s kind of like when you finally get out of your parents’ roof, you’re starting to think about things for yourself. And that’s often a lot of times when people do go to seminary, right after college or maybe straight into a Christian College, so they did start to kind of look at that belief system and we actually start seeing how screwed up the world is. We’re like, God, how did you make this? What happened here? [KELLY]: Yeah. [WHITNEY]: Yeah, yeah. Well, I love that we kind of just jumped right into the faith here. [KELLY]: It’s funny because I think, even talking to you now, I’m aware of my hesitancy because people sometimes want to know, they want to label if like, then what is your faith? And it’s very hard for me to put a label on it, even now. It’s just I, you know… So I’m like, Oh, I can’t always put words around it. So hopefully, people are understanding and I’m being clear. [WHITNEY]: Well, I love that you’re even addressing that because even I feel that way. Like, oh my gosh, I’m doing this podcast. What do I actually think about faith sometimes? You know, and it’s that journey, right? And there are days wherein my faith I’m like, this is awesome, I love God, yada yada. There’s times I’m like, Lord, are you there? What is this? What is the church? Why does it function the way it does? So, you know, it’s that journey and the ups and downs and figuring out how do we actually express that. It’s really challenging. [KELLY]: Especially when it comes in and how that shows up in your business. It’s one thing in your personal life, it’s another thing when you’re visible as a professional. [WHITNEY]: Yeah. So could you talk some about what do you think about Christian counseling and Christian counseling as a business and not as a business, kind of speaking to that? [KELLY]: Yeah, I really feel that we do a service to our communities and to the mental health field when we niche. I find that it allows us to enhance our training when we have focus on what our clinical skills are. And we have… I know like, going to school that’s a great, broad start but the learning doesn’t end there. And when you have a niche, it can really help inform your training, education, ongoing supervision, clinical consultation. I also believe in a world of niche that our practices should reflect the communities we serve. We need black therapists, we need therapists who are immigrants. We need therapists who speak other languages. We need therapists of all different faiths, because that is the community we serve. They are different colors, different genders, different sexual orientations, all of that. And they… People need to see therapists like them in practice. I think that’s very important. And especially in… Since this is about faith, like when we’re talking about faith, I feel that it’s a value to say, I have knowledge of something about area of life and I have studied it and I have clinical skill around it. That’s the value of saying, I’m a Christian counselor for someone who needs that and wants that. [WHITNEY]: Yeah, I like that you’re speaking to this because I do get a lot of questions from people about “Should I niche as a Christian counselor or not?”. Because there’s that fear that you’re going to draw other people away. [KELLY]: Well, that’s the fear with any niche. Right? [WHITNEY]: That’s true. That’s true. [KELLY]: Yeah, you are not here to serve everybody. That’s impossible. And that’s just flat out wrong. Because then, what? We’re going to have a really long waitlist for the one therapist that can do it all. That’s not the way we do community, right. We all need each other. We all have our place and the parts that we serve. And so it’s more a matter of do I want this to be part of the story? Do I want this to be how I show up clinically? Some people see it as their ministry, you know, being in counseling, but they don’t see it as overt. It’s more of like providing healing and love. It’s just part of the ministry that they do and they don’t necessarily put a label on it. Other people want to put a label on it because they want the person that’s in the room to know that it’s safe for them. But even in Christian counseling there’s a lot of variety, which is why you end up with some people who are really biblical counselors versus Christian counselors, you know. What is being used as a tool in the room will define that as well. So even if you were to say I provide Christian counseling, you’re going to have to do better in describing what that means and how that shows up, you know, in the therapy room. [WHITNEY]: Yeah, so how do you think people can go about that, in expressing that to their community? [KELLY]: In terms of…? [WHITNEY]: Like, how do you express… Because this is a question I also get a lot. How do we express our values in our Christianity in an appropriate way? Does that start on our website? Or is it come in one on one meetings with people? What’s the best way to do that? [KELLY]: It starts with… On your website, I think that’s your hub for your marketing anyway and getting really clear about who you serve, and how you help. So who is that person? Do you want to work primarily with Christians? You still may have people who are not Christian that will call you because your Christian clients have non-Christian friends who may say, “Hey, I’m not a Christian, but I hear you’re a great therapist for this.” You know what I mean? [WHITNEY]: Yeah. [KELLY]: I don’t think you will lack variety, but you will get focused on where you market your practice when you’re working from a Christian lens. So where do Christians hang out, all those kinds of things in terms of how you do your marketing. So your messaging needs to be on point. And you need to be clear as to how faith shows up in the therapy world, in your therapy sessions, and how you use space as part of the clinical intervention. So I have seen therapists say, I pray with my clients. I have seen therapists say, I curse with my clients. But you know, I’m a Christian therapist, what is it like to be with you in the room? And for me, I was never overtly, hey, I’m a Christian therapist. Well, you could kind of deduce I went to Fuller. Now Fuller, in the seminary world, has its own reputation, right. Each seminary is known; liberal, conservative, all these different things. So you can make assumptions from that. So I did have my education on my website but I did have a specialty called spiritual crisis. And I never said, like, Christian on it. I only said that you were raised with beliefs and as you are now out on your own, everything that formed your world, you are questioning and it’s giving you anxiety to think about. You feel depressed when you think about it, and you even feel angry that you are left to rebuild everything that you thought was true that maybe it isn’t for you anymore. And that’s where I could help. So, I never said Christian, but I had friends who were. They were like, I’m a Christian counselor. I believe God is an important part of your life and we will talk about how you integrate your faith in your life, and how is that going to be a resource for you instead of something that holds you back, you know. Using faith as a resourcing mechanism when there is true religious trauma for people, you know, how to heal that.
So everyone has their different ways of integrating it. I do think people need to understand that there is training behind that. In seminary I got training behind that integration and I think some people would benefit from some additional training if they are unclear. So they can understand the boundaries and the lines and the ethics too, you know, if… There’s the Christian Counseling Association; they have a very different set of ethics, some that I don’t totally stand by, so I never joined them. So everyone’s got a different kind of rules or things that they look at in terms of that integration. And you’ve got to kind of see where you land and know that that may change over time with experience. But where you land ends up in your messaging, and that messaging ends up in how you talk about your practice, that initial consult that you have with the client and sharing with them what the process is like. And then in the clinical work ongoing all the way to discharge.[WHITNEY]: You’re given such good information. I love it. When you were talking about the part of your website for the spiritual crisis I was hanging on every word. I know that feeling, like, so often we have that feeling, we don’t want to talk about it. And you just spoke so clearly and I think that’s a great example of how we speak to our clients on our website about their pain and their struggle, and that we can empathize with them. And obviously your therapist doesn’t have any BS like you get straight to the point and hop into it with your clients. [KELLY]: I do. [WHITNEY]: You know, I’m sure you’re that way with your coaching people. [KELLY]: Yeah. [WHITNEY]: That’s what’s powerful, right, is when we’re real. And that’s honestly, I think, what God wants is that authenticity in relationships, and the battle – religious – is so real. All that stuff is so real. [KELLY]: And I think it’s important. I think there’s such a value, even if you say I don’t want to put Christian on my side; I’m not a Christian counselor, but I am a Christian in my life. You have an awareness, you have your own experience you bring into the room, but also just awareness of the whole of that person, of asking in an assessment… It will change the way you do an assessment. You know, in your initial assessment, how do you ask questions about faith, religion, spiritual practice? You may ask more details and more things than someone who doesn’t have those experiences in their life. So there is… It shows up in subtle ways, and it can show up in very direct ways. [WHITNEY]: Oh, yeah, I think the important thing that you’re speaking to is that the counselor takes some time to really think about how they want to market themselves and what do they really want to see in the room? And to know that and to really speak to that instead of just anywhere, any person. [KELLY]: Right. [WHITNEY]: Yeah. So can you speak to the idea of how religion sometimes can lead to burnout but faith is an asset? [KELLY]: Yeah. Well, that’s, that’s like a whole other… That’s like a book. I think sometimes we have expectations that can come from our religious upbringing or our religious practices. And so I would say, religion in terms of like dogma, a set of tenets, structure boundaries versus faith – what is that relationship? And faith, in our relationship, you are getting mirrored back to you, who you are, who you were created to be, what your gifts are. There’s discernment happening and those kinds of things. But when we are unbalanced and living in rigidity and the rules, and the… I can’t think of any other word but dogma and I feel like that’s a negative word, but maybe I’ll come up with a different word, but when we are erring on that side, that is exhausting. And it can sometimes quelch…squelch? [WHITNEY]: Squelch, yeah, good word. [KELLY]: Yeah, well the dynamic part of having a faith, that is very much more an internal process and so I find for example – we’ll just talk about the marketing, we’ll keep this easy – when people are getting stuck on What do I say? Or what do I do? Sometimes I find that that comes from that religious kind of What are the rules? What am I… what is the right thing to do? Instead of switching on to that discernment and faith and trusting You know what, my heart is in the right place. I’m going to make mistakes. But what I really want in a relationship to transmit through me to whoever I meet with are these things, right? If you are stuck and really trying to meet all the status quo and do all the right things, you will burn out. That comes into play basically, in all of business. I think when people are rigid, and they have all these certain expectations and goals, sometimes goals can be very motivating, but sometimes it can be used to oppress ourselves. And so faith can bring in that creativity. And that, like, going back to what is the essence, which is a relationship. That’s what all this is about. If you look at outcomes, it’s not who had more certifications. It’s not who, you know, did the best intervention. It’s attunement, and the ability to connect and build trust is the number one thing that creates outcomes, positive outcomes, in therapy. So integrating faith and relationship in that will enhance that over the other stuff. Does that answer your question? [WHITNEY]: Oh, that’s beautiful. Yes. Definitely. Definitely and I always am preaching that even to my clients and to my clinicians at my practice, that it’s about the relationship. And I found that as in this work that I’m doing with people in faith-based practices, we’ve got not only the rigidity in the rules of building a business, but then you got the rigidity in the rules of faith, or religion. And so then you’re trying to like, put these two together and it can be really, really difficult. And so it does take a lot of that time of self-care, pulling back and really thinking about what’s your mission and what are you doing so that you can care for yourself and also care for your clients and not being so rules-based? I actually am extremely rules based in my life. Yeah, I’m a one on the enneagram so it’s intense and this… I had this experience a few weeks back where it was time to go to church on Wednesday night. I’m in the bible belt so, you know, we go to church all the time [KELLY]: I know. [WHITNEY]: And I was like, You know what? I am not feeling church right now. I’m not feeling it. I need to go on a run. I’ve got to have this moment in my life. And I felt guilt and I was like, forget it. I’m doing this. I went on this run and had this amazing time with the Lord and got some great prayer time in and ended up seeing a client at the park while I’m running. And I was like, Wow, that’s so weird that I’m seeing her and so I said a little prayer for her and found out later she was having this really intense conversation and at that moment, she needed prayer. And I was like, wow, when I chose to step back from the rules and regulations that I put on myself was when God actually appeared and my faith grew. [KELLY]: Right. I think it’s kind of interesting, right? Like, what we do in the therapy room – I’m gonna assume a lot of people listening – is we are teaching people to parent themselves. Right? We’re teaching them to have compassion. I wouldn’t look at a child and be like, it’s time to go down the slide, get down the slide. You know, we’re at the park at five o’clock, that’s slide time, that’s what you’ve got to do. You wouldn’t. As a parent, you don’t do it. You wouldn’t tell your client that either. You tell them to be in tune and in touch. And that’s the same thing we want to replicate personally as business owners and in our faith is getting in touch with the relationship because of the rules, or because of fear, really, honestly, and a false sense of protection and if we got more into that, like listening to ourselves, what a gift, because that’s what you do every day as a clinician, hopefully, is to listen and attune. And when you did that for yourself, what a gift. [WHITNEY]: So true. We just have to stop and actually do it. Yeah. [KELLY]: Yeah. It’s a new part of the brain. I mean, being raised in the south as well in the Bible Belt, so to speak, and church on Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday evening. Like, I get it, I had all that and until I let go, that can be very scary. And that’s… And especially when that’s what’s defined things versus this other stuff. You just gave a beautiful picture of two ways to define faith: following that routine and that ritual, or also responding to a need. You know? [WHITNEY]: It’s such a balance, right? Because there’s an element of like, I find my faith in my routine, when I get up and have… My run is faith. Really. That’s when I have my faith. [KELLY]: I think I couldn’t believe you can pray when you run. I can barely breathe when I run. [WHITNEY]: Yeah. It takes a lot of practice. But yeah, so it’s like I experience faith and things that don’t seem religious, you know, but at the same time, sometimes I have to take religious things and experience faith in there. Sometimes I experience faith when I go to church or when I fast from something, it’s lunch or thinking about fasting. Those kinds of things. You do experience God in that as well. So talk to us about your coaching business about the work you’re doing. [KELLY]: Yeah. So, I work primarily online with clients and Miranda and I have a business called Bootcamp. It’s the largest online business training system for therapists. It’s everything from starting to growing to group practice that you never got taught in grad school. But our focus is really in how everything you do in your business influences outcomes. So looking at your marketing from How can I get better outcomes in the therapy room, if my marketing shifted? My message, my initial consultation script, how I talk about my fees, all these kinds of things, to run your business, influence that therapeutic relationship. So it’s looking at increasing the income while improving your outcomes clinically. And so, yeah, it’s this great program that’s all online and we have people from all over the world in it. And then I have a few… I have some coaching clients and we do a retreat every year and I coach them throughout the year as well and we have over 10 hours of free training too. So even if you’re not interested in doing like a paid program or something like that, the free stuff alone – there’s one on niche, and I think it’s good to look at if you are kind of grappling with, Who do I want to work with, in my practice, as a Christian business owner? How does that look? Do I want to work with a certain kind of issue that people are struggling with? Do I want to market that I do Christian counseling for all these different kinds of issues? So you can kind of help people sort through that, and that’s a free training. [WHITNEY]: Great so that… You have the Business School Bootcamp, and you also have the private practice channel? [KELLY]: Yes. So that’s part of the free trainings. We kind of put them in order so you can see how each decision stacks upon each other when you’re forming your business plan. So it’s kind of like a mini business plan if you take the challenge. You can do it at any time, access the program anytime you want. And yeah, it’s free. [WHITNEY]: Awesome. So if people want to get in touch with you, what’s the best way for them to do that? [KELLY]: Yeah, they can go to ZynnyMe.com. They can access the challenge there, all the free trainings are there, information about Bootcamp is there and you can contact us there. [WHITNEY]: Awesome. Now I ask this question to everyone on the podcast. What do you believe…? [KELLY]: Uh oh. [WHITNEY]: Yeah, I think I threw this at you at the beginning, but now I can’t remember so get ready. What do you think every Christian counselor needs to know? [KELLY]: That they are enough as they are. That just showing up as themselves, holding that space for love and attention and attunement is enough, and that is the gift that they will always be giving to their clients, whether they call it Christian or not. [WHITNEY]: Yes. Kelly, this has been awesome. I love doing the podcast because you spoke to my heart so many times in this interview and I feel very refreshed in my faith now so I can go see clients. [KELLY]: Thank you for that gift. [WHITNEY]: Yeah, well good to be with you, and thanks for your time and being on the podcast. [KELLY]: Thank you. [WHITNEY]: Thank you for listening to the Faith in Practice podcast. If you love this podcast please rate and review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player. If you liked this episode and want to know more, check out the Practice the Practice website. Also there you can learn more about me, options for working together such as individual and group consulting, or just shoot me an email: firstname.lastname@example.org – we’d love to hear from you.
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