[WHITNEY OWENS]
Welcome to the Faith in Practice podcast. I’m your host Whitney Owens recording live from Savannah, Georgia. I’m a licensed professional counselor, group practice owner, and private practice consultant. Each week through personal story or amazing interviews, I will help you learn how to start, grow and scale your practice from a faith-based perspective. I will show you how to have an awesome faith-based practice without being cheesy or fake. You too can have a successful practice, make lots of money, and be true to yourself.

Hello and welcome to the Faith in Practice podcast. So glad that you’re here with me today. We have finally made it to September. Oh, I do live in the south. It is hot and humid. Even went on a run this morning, I love running, and this time of year, it is tough. My running time is like easy, 30 to 45 seconds, slower than usual per mile, but gosh, I just sat down and there’s like little droplets all over my legs with the humidity. So I’m just saying July and August are some hard months. So when I finally hit September, I’m getting a lot happier, even though it’s still very humid. We are getting into a better season and speaking of seasons, that means football. So I’m really happy about that as well. I just really enjoy the fall. So I’m happy that we’ve made it here. I’m hoping that you are as well. I’m looking forward to the leaves changing and a little bit of a cooler weather.

So I’m excited when we talk about September, new things coming our way. We are launching our second Group Practice Launch cohort. So we did the first one last March. I would say we had 30 to 40 people in Group Practice Launch, and that’s our membership community for people who are wanting to start a group practice. Alison Pidgeon and I lead that and we have found, I was just talking to a group practice owner today, actually, who has six clinicians and she was telling me, “Gosh, I really wish I’d done this differently when I started this practice.” And I said, “You are not alone. Alison and I both feel that we get calls from people who hit four or five, six clinicians and that’s when you start to notice some of the mistakes up front that you could have prevented.”

So if you are ever going to invest in consulting, which I think you should, because it’s awesome and I’ve done it too, please invest. If you’re going to start a group practice, don’t do it on your own. Now consulting is some big investment. It’s worth it, but it’s a big investment. So Alison and I thought, okay, let’s start a membership community because then we can get the information to people at a lower cost. They still can ask us questions. They still have all the documents. So that’s what we did. So in our membership communities, we meet with people starting a group practice once a week and answer questions and help them through each stage. Along with that, we have weekly meetings where you attend a webinar and you learn more about videos that you’re watching, and the videos walk you step by step.

And it’s in the webinars. You can ask a couple of questions. Then we have all the documents. You’ll want to review those with your attorney, but we have tons and tons of documents and coursework that you can do. You also have a workbook that you can print out and keep for your resources because some people find that they start their group practice and they need to go back and refer to something that we reviewed before. So some of the topics that we cover, the first part is foundations and understanding are my system set up? I’m telling you people tell me all the time, “Oh, I’ve got all the systems in place.” But I promise you, there’s something you’re missing. We’re all missing something.

So I help people kind of go back and say, “Hey that phone system may not work for what you need, or this is not a HIPAA-compliant program and you think it is.” So some of those things that we go through. And meeting with your attorney and finding your accountant and setting up payroll, we help you there at the very beginning. And then how do you actually consider your brand, your niche, find the right kind of clinician for your practice? How do you hire W2’s or 1099s? Which one’s best for your practice? And what’s all the paperwork I need for that? How do I do an interview, a phone screening, personality tests, all those things?

And then I also bring in that faith-based perspective too. So I get a lot of questions on the faith-based practice part and hiring to help people with that. And then we also help you go back and look at, hey, is this working? Like onboarding your clinician, are you getting calls, are you marketing them appropriately? Are they seeing clients and not discharging them too soon? And are you actually making an income? Are you able to pay yourself enough? So these are all things that we cover in Group Practice Launch. So if you’re listening right now and you’re thinking, I’m pretty sure I want to start a group practice, I really want to encourage you to join Group Practice Launch. We are opening the doors on September 7th, so just a few days after airing this podcast and we have an early bird special. So the seventh and eighth, you will be able to join for $1350, for six months of a membership community and consulting, everything that you need in the package.

After those first two days, you could still join. It’d be $1,500, so it’s $150 more. So if you’re listening to this episode a little later and you still want to join, go to practiceofthepractice.com/grouppracticelaunch. There, you can get more information, learn more about the community and you can join the wait list, or you can go ahead and join. We do keep the doors open only for so much time, because we want to really work with each cohort and take them through the steps and really can’t join late on this. You want to make sure that you cover everything because what happens sometimes is people skip the steps, they start their group practice and they go back and they have to fix things later. So we really want to make sure that you’re in a good place when you start your group. So this most recent cohort we’ve seen people hiring their first clinician, second clinicians. We have had some people join that are just in the very beginning stages of their groups. Maybe they hired one person, but they’re not really sure how it’s going and they’re trying to reevaluate. They’ve also joined Group Practice Launch.

So today I have an interview with one of our members of Group Practice Launch, Michelle Croyle. She is fantastic and I really enjoyed talking to her on the podcast. I’ve known Michelle for a little while now because she’s been a part of the Faith in Practice community. She has a really special niche in working with Christians, women with trauma. She has her own podcast. You should check that out as well. We’ll have that in the show notes. But I love that Michelle also kind of is part of this faith-based component within Group Practice Lunch. So she does a really great job sharing that with you and her experience and hopefully she has hired a few more people by the time this air to kind of hear a little bit more about that in the show. So if you’re thinking about hiring people for your faith-based practice, you’re going to want to listen to this interview. And I think it’s going to resonate with you. If you have questions, reach out to me, we’d love to get on a call with you, help you figure out if Group Practice Launch is the right place for you. If you’re starting a group practice, it very likely is. So again, thanks for listening and I am excited to introduce you to Michelle.
[WHITNEY]
Hey Michelle, thanks so much for coming on the show today.
[MICHELLE CROYLE]
Hi Whitney.
[WHITNEY]
So glad to have you. I’ve known you for a couple of years now, just different phone calls we’ve had and Facebook groups and I just love having the Faith in Practice community to be able to connect with people. We haven’t met in person yet, but hopefully at some point we will. So yes, we’d love for you to first kind of share a little bit about yourself and kind of your involvement in your practice, your podcast, and how you kind of got involved with Practice of the Practice.
[MICHELLE]
Okay. So I’m a Christian and I am a therapist and God has had those threads throughout my life, but they came together when I had two, three young kids. Actually I think all three were born at the time. I was homeschooling and going for my masters and just work my way through. It took me 13 years to get licensed because my family is my first priority. And eventually I ended up where they needed my money more than I needed my time as teenagers. I started counting my licensure hours and a man from my church invited me over to talk with him at his private practice to see if I’d like to join them and I got a taste for private practice. I planned to stay there a bit longer than it worked out. But just for reasons I won’t go into here, we parted on great terms, but I was like, I guess this is God’s time for me to start my own practice.

So my specialty through all of that honed in on a niche of trauma, therapy for Christian women. I’m currently working towards my certification in EMDR, have those initial trainings done and use it with great success with a lot of clients. As a result, I really have honed that niche down to the pain points of Christian women who have trauma in their background and trying to break free. And natural outflowing was also to do The Free to Be Me Podcast to help people with kind of therapy, light skills. So I tell them it’s not therapy, but we do a lot around like life coaching types of topics. So that’s where all of that kind of is right now.

I got into the Next Level Practice when I first branched out before my licensure was official so I couldn’t be on insurance panels. But wasn’t quite ready to do all of the marketing that would be needed to go into just self pay. I wasn’t quite as niched at that point yet and reached out and did the Practice of the Practice. So love that. And then kind of outgrew some of those things because I had those pieces down and then Group Practice Launch became available. So I was like, okay, let’s see if group practice is the next thing we want to do. I had kind of dipped my toe in the water with an independent contractor and it was just fine. I liked the extra income while I could take time off and she was making money for the practice, which was awesome and helping people. So I didn’t have to turn as many people away and then she got an offer for, just an insane offer.

A friend was stepping down from an institution like hospital, a thing with a fabulous package of benefits and everything and she regretfully said, “Michelle, I’m sorry. I can’t pass it up.” I was like, “Totally understand that.” But fortunately I had joined Group Practice Launch way before that at like by a couple of months and I knew that I was heading towards the employee model. So all that to say where we are today is basically I have this private practice that’s thriving, I have the podcast, I have the niche and I know I no longer want to do the independent contractor route. I want to do employees and that’s because of Group Practice Lunch.
[WHITNEY]
Awesome. Well, let’s take back a few steps because I want to kind of explain to people the difference here, because I honestly, I remember even when I was hired for Practice of the Practice, I still was like, wait, now what is NLP? And that was just because I had never done it before. And I already had a group practice at that point. So I was kind of learning. So NLP is called Next Level Practice and it’s our membership community with Practice of the Practice for people who have a solo practice wanting to kind of get to that 60 to a hundred thousand a year. So we really focus on those foundational pieces for solo owners, as well as marketing and just growing your business and delegating and things like that. And then some of the members in NLP decide they want to start a group practice or you don’t have to be a part of NLP to decide that, of course, so you decide you want to start a group practice.

So we have another membership community for those people. And then we actually have another membership community for people who already have a group practice because we’re trying to provide services for people who are wanting that place of community because we know private practice can be so lonely sometimes, and we just need that ongoing assistance and help in community. So Michelle has been a part of Group Practice Launch which is for people who are looking to start a group practice. So Michelle, can you share a little bit about your experience in Group Practice Launch?
[MICHELLE]
Yes, so I took on the independent contractor before joining Group Practice Launch. It was just a few months before the cohort of the Group Practice Launch took off. So by the time she was transitioning out, I had already learned about the difference between the independent contractor model, the 1099 and the W2 employee model. I wouldn’t have known that without Group Practice Lunch. I wouldn’t have understood the options that were out there, wouldn’t have understood the considerations. I had a lot of pieces and I would have done fine on my own, but I wouldn’t have been as solid in understanding why these decisions and systems were the best way. So Group Practice Launch helped me to really understand kind of the nuts and bolts of why we do what we do in what order we do it.

And I really do believe that eventually it’s definitely going to be a return on investment because I’m strategically investing rather than haphazardly, trying to figure it out on my own. So Group Practice Launch has kind of like just giving me the overall framework from which I can have this solid base and foundation to bring in what I already know, but now know why, why I know that, why I made these choices so that when that gets challenged, I have a very well thought out and planned methodology that you guys have helped me to be able to see because you’ve already been there.
[WHITNEY]
I love that you said that so well. And when Alison and I were creating Group Practice Launch, that is exactly kind of what our mission was, the way you just said it. So I appreciate you putting those pieces together because we were finding that a lot of people were starting group practices. They couldn’t necessarily afford individual consulting or mastermind group, but they were wanting that information and then we just hated that they were calling us years later and saying, “Oh, I didn’t do this. I didn’t even know that was an option.” We were like, we’ve got to teach these people this before —
[MICHELLE]
On the front end.
[WHITNEY]
That’s right. That’s right. So talk a little bit about the community that you’ve kind of created through Group Practice Launch.
[MICHELLE]
Yes. So through Group Practice Launch, we’re all kind of different specialties, different niches, but it’s helpful to hear someone else’s take and go, oh, I hadn’t looked at it that way. So it just gives you a new framework for that as well. You know, you’re putting on a different perspective because you’re looking at it through how someone’s hearing what’s happening in your circumstances and the blind spots that you just can’t see on your own because you’re too close to it all. That’s probably been the biggest group takeaway. There’s also the Facebook group where people have been encouraging about way to go or that great post where you’re getting stuck and ask your questions or say what you’ve accomplished. So there’s a lot of good supportive feedback.

And I also liked that Group Practice Launch is regular. So it’s six months of regular weekly meetings. So you have that hour carved out and during that hour on a specific topic that you guys have already provided us with videos and downloads, things that we can reference back to, and then we have that discussion. So it helps make it actionable, but also like I’m going to forget stuff. When you teach me, I’m going to have to put it into action so I can remember. So I always have the videos, anybody in the group always has the videos to go back to, always has the documentation that you provided and print out the paperwork or whatever. And that’s the other piece too. You provide a lot of your own personal paperwork and information that you guys have, and that’s at our disposal too. So it’s really been valuable.
[WHITNEY]
Oh, that’s so great. We were thinking, we’re going to bring these documents together and then each month you get all those documents and then basically you have your own workbook. Like when you’re done, you said that you want to print all that out. You can refer back to that because yes, in years to come here you’ll be like, what was that thing that we talked about? And you will have access to those videos in the future too, if you want to go refer back to one of them, here, my stories as well as Alison.
[MICHELLE]
And you might not need it yet. Like, that’s what I found, just happened to me yesterday. So as an example, I’m currently trying to recruit Christian trauma therapists to join the practice. And I took some advice from a combination of things in the group, one of them buying a mailing list that I wouldn’t have even considered if Alison hadn’t brought that to my attention. She’s also in Pennsylvania. So she said, that’s how she went about it. She bought a mailing list of licensed counselors around her and then she sent out postcards from Vista Print, they upload the Excel template with the addresses and Vista Print sends them out. And I was like, wow. So I got the postcards, didn’t know Vistaprint could send it out, so sent a few out on my own, but it was getting too time consuming, came back and then she was like, “Oh, actually we had Vista Print send it for us.”

So I’m like, “Okay, there’s another piece of information.” First of all, there’s this mailing list I didn’t know existed. There’s this postcard concept because job search platforms weren’t bringing in enough leads for the cost. And then on top of that, knowing that there’s a way to streamline it. Like if I didn’t have that to bounce off and say where I’m stuck. I wouldn’t know. The postcards went out last week. So they went out on, I think they started arriving in mailboxes on Friday and I’ve had six responses from that, five inquiries already, which is huge. It’s huge. There are a couple that are strong possibilities but I’ll have to come back to the group and already have questions for you guys because of nuances of people and what they want and things like that.

But we’re heading in the right direction. But all that to say that now I have a couple of interviews set up for this weekend, Friday and Saturday. And I didn’t even know like when I went over at the first time, oh, what questions do you ask of an employee or whatever to someone you’re interviewing. Well, that’s great and I knew it at the time and I understood it but now that it’s happening, I have to go back and refer to that and go over that again. So yesterday, just that resourcing, being able to go back to it really meant a lot to me to be able to say, “Okay, I know where to find this now, now that it’s applicable because I’m at that stage.”
[WHITNEY]
Yes. That’s fantastic.

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[WHITNEY]
So I want to talk for a few minutes about kind of the layout of Group Practice Launch that you just referred to. One thing that Alison and I, she co-leads the group with me that we think is really important is consistency. So in having a very strict open and closed door policy so that way we’re really moving through the program together as a group, which is a little different than some other programs that we do through Practice of the Practice, because we think it’s so important that you hit these steps and that you don’t move forward too fast or, and all those kinds of concepts. So yes, we meet every Thursday. Right now we’ve been meeting on Thursdays at one o’clock, which is when we will continue to meet for the next cohort on next Eastern time. So, like Michelle said, she watches videos on the content. That way we’re not spending our time doing content during the webinars, we’re spending our time answering questions and really saying, okay, we might’ve just learned how to market somebody, but how do you actually put these things into practice?

Or you might learn about questions for hiring. Well, maybe you have a specific question like for Michelle and I. We might be discussing well, how do you find someone with a faith-based background, appropriately do an interview and bring that candidate into your practice? That’s actually a very common conversation that we have on the Facebook page and in Group Practice Launch. Since this is a fact-based podcast, I’m speaking to faith-based practice owners today, but Group Practice Launch is for anyone that has any type of practice, as long as they’re hiring. But what I love is that people, as such as Michelle, who’s also part of the Faith in Practice are in there and we’re able to talk about things related to our faith and related to running our business. So some people have come into Group Practice Lunch simply because they know me and I’ve loved that component of it as well. But yes, we meet on Thursdays and then we also have an event called Learn from a Boss once a month. Do you want to talk about that for a second, what that is?
[MICHELLE]
Yes. So it’s bringing people in who are either at this stage, but growing, or further ahead down the path that we can ask questions of and they can share their experience and where they’ve had hang ups or where they’ve had growth and just kind of hearing it in real life. Because we’re all kind of navigating these same experiences and we’re all going to handle them differently. But some core skills are kind of coming out from these people who’ve already done it or who are currently doing it. And then we’re all just kind of learning from each other.
[WHITNEY]
And it’s really fun to see how everyone does their practice differently. It’s like their niche and they make their brand a part of that. So being able to interview six different people outside of myself and Alison who all have group practices and have done it differently, they might have a 1099 model, someone else at W2’s, someone else private pay, someone else faith-based. This is cool to be able to have those experiences.
[MICHELLE]
Well, and you, too, even you and Alison, sometimes you don’t agree on things. It’s not like anything contentious, but you have different views of how it’s worked for you in your practice. And that’s really helpful because I can, anybody in the group, but for me personally, what I’ve done is I’ve been able to, okay, in this way, I align with this because that’ll work better for me. I see the other point and I like having the options to be able to have a balanced view and then do what’s right based on where I am in whatever process and situation. So they’re all valid ways to go about it, but then to figure out what’s going to work best for your unique situation. It’s really helpful.

I think the other piece too, that you were mentioning that way to just allude back to is even though not everybody in the Group Practice Launch is from a faith-based background, I haven’t had any disrespect for being from a faith-based background. So we’re all just offering help to each other and encouragement to each other. And it just becomes a part of, okay, that’s their niche or that’s them or whatever, but it’s still been so supportive whether they share the same faith or not.
[WHITNEY]
I love that. I’m so glad you’ve had that experience and I’ve really enjoyed leading it. You were in our first cohort. So we were kind of figuring our way through it, but we knew there was a need for this. And I’ve been very pleased with how well it’s gone. So we’re going to keep doing it and we will launch every, about every six months, we might up that up, increase that to every three months if there’s a need for that. But right now our next cohort is going to be right now when we’re on the podcast, so it’s very exciting.
[MICHELLE]
Yes. I would definitely say it’s worth the investment and I’m penny pincher extraordinary. So to hear that from me, that’s a big deal. It’s something that’s going to save me. It already has, but it’s going to save me lots of money down the road and then bring that return on investment for sure.
[WHITNEY]
Yes, especially I find that those financial decisions up front that you have to make and figuring out what to pay and being able to even save money on different things that we can give you links to, or ideas about is huge. But especially reviewing documents with an attorney and talking to an accountant, like we can really help you save a lot of time there so that time is money for an attorney.
[MICHELLE]
Yes. It really is. I think you’re right. If you’re spending the money somewhere, spend it on the education and the awareness, because if you have that information, it’s going to avoid so many pitfalls. I could sit here, I know we don’t have time to, but I could sit here and go through okay, well, what did this save me? Just by having that guidance, it’s saved a lot, I’m sure, already.
[WHITNEY]
Oh, I’m so glad. Well, and I’m so excited because I did not know the update about your interviews. I’m really looking forward to hearing how that goes.
[MICHELLE]
Me too.
[WHITNEY]
Well, Michelle, I ask everyone that comes on the show, what do you believe every Christian counselor needs to know?
[MICHELLE]
I really believe just to remember that that the Holy Spirit is with you and that it doesn’t have to be solved all at once. He’ll lead your steps. He knows where you’re going. So just hold it with open hands and let Him direct the path.
[WHITNEY]
Thank goodness.
[MICHELLE]
Yes. I don’t want the responsibility that way.
[WHITNEY]
Now, if somebody is listening and they want to connect with you, learn more about your podcast, can you tell us real quick how to get in touch with you?
[MICHELLE]
Yes. So on the web it’s abundantfreedomcounseling.com. Abundant, [DANT] not abundance. So abundantfreedomcounseling.com and then thefreetobemepodcast.com.
[WHITNEY]
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I’ve loved having you in Group Practice Launch, and hope that we continue to connect.
[MICHELLE]
Yes, I’ll see you tomorrow during the meeting, if you’re there. Unless it’s Aliso, and that’s okay too. Thanks Whitney.
[WHITNEY]
We want to thank our sponsor Brighter Vision for this episode. And I want to remind you of the Fall Into Cash offer. Head on over to brightervision.com/joe, to earn a $49 a month website for a whole year. That’s over $200 in savings on your new website with Brighter Vision. So to get that deal, go on over to brightervision.com/joe.

Thank you for listening to the Faith in Practice podcast. If you love this podcast, please rate and review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player. If you liked this episode and want to know more, check out the Practice of the Practice website. Also there, you can learn more about me, options for working together, such as individual and in group consulting, or just shoot me an email, [email protected]. We’d love to hear from you.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, Practice of the Practice, or the guests are providing legal, mental health, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.