PoP 108 | Hermeisha’s Practice Practice Consultant Roundtable

private practice consulting

In this session, we discuss Hermeisha Hopson’s Jacksonville, NC counseling practice, Refuge Counseling.  Julie Hanks, Kelly Higdon, and Miranda Palmer join me for the second of three consultant roundtables. The four of us are doing a conference May 19-21, 2016 called The Most Awesome Conference. At it we’ll be deep diving with you on how to grow your practice. Also we have food trucks, massage therapy, and a bunch of surprises. To discover more and see if it’s a fit for you, check out www.MostAwesomeConference.com 

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PoP Culture Meet the Consultants















Joe Sanok

consultant headshot JoeJoe Sanok, MA, LLP, LPC, NCC is one of the world’s leading private practice consultants. He is the owner of the Traverse City counseling practice, Mental Wellness Counseling. Joe helps counselors to start private practices and grow them.



Podcast Transcription

Pop 108 | Hermeisha’S Practice Practice Consultant Roundtable

[0:00] Music.

[0:29] Yes i’m joe santa lock your host and i am here with three of my favorite women in the world julie hank’s marie and palmer and kelly again how you raised ladies doing today.
Where your second favorite three ladies in the world crack,
yeah i said some of my favorite young is the lady that i love more than anything here my daughters where yes,
and i would say my mom and sister and there’s a line in the sand and coming from and he forgot we’re done,
yeah like everything up to twenty fifth twenty sixth and twenty seventh,
what is your hundred pc case in here,
i have hundred women in my life that’s not finishing it all will it will do this is using my other podcast i don’t promote skin and,
well glad you guys are here we’re super excited greater vision as a sponsor again they are just awesome there the best all-in-one solution for therapists and you get amazing benefits the three biggest things i love,
the amazing website that cost less than two dollars a day you get unlimited tech support me like when your website just,
goes crazy like they will fix it and then as ceo of help you rank in google the optimize your site for the q word you’re looking at.
And what i’ve loved is getting to know some of the people that actually worked with them so tamra powell from.

[2:04] ryatherapy.com it’s a ryatherapy.com said you’ve absolutely been amazing every step of this process and so thrilled with my new branding and i have you to thank for making it so easy and dare i say,
enjoyable so dare you say it camera you have an awesome website next year to write a vision and we love perry and his team over there he’s awesome,
so today we’re going to be diving deep into our friend her mission’s website and her business and going on a tangent or two and looking forward to just,
diving deep with the ladies is let’s hear what her michelle asked.
Hi joe julie kelly maranda my name is hermes hopson in my website is www.refugecounselingcs.com,
that’s a refuge counseling season and i have a question regarding transparency specifically on your website,
answer pros and cons of that person looking go very well that can go pretty bad so i just want to know.
What You are man and also.
Maybe something back on my left side i do disclose a little bit about my story that i feel comfortable with because it is my story and.

[3:25] I’m i want to definitely be purposeful in reaching my ideal client and encouraging them so.
On that is what i did and i just wanted to get your thoughts on that if you have time to view my website but nonetheless this pros and cons of each transparency on your website thank you guys so much by.

[3:47] So hermes website she got some questions about transparency about just like if she’s reaching her ideal client how we’ve gone through transparency which i’m actually really excited to talk about say actually transparencies one of those things that.
If you do it right can make just such a can we just such a unique selling point for you because it it’s you know you’re demonstrating who you are and so,
i’m super excited to hear what julie miranda and kelly have to say about her michelle her website transparency and maybe let’s see where this conversation goes.
So her website is www.refugecounselingcs.com i got it pulled up right here and a beautiful website would it and is revision say that’s true.

[4:36] So i’m noticing some things i notice right away is like ray and her front page she talks about providing christian counseling gospel oriented counseling with the and have a scroll through again she is helping children and adults recover from trauma.
She has that she provides gospel centered christian counseling and then also said as providing hope and recovery to both the mind and the soul,
that’s what he has noticed maybe on the front page of her refused counseling saying that we can springboard from there.

[5:07] So i’m really not in bad the branding is beautiful and on point like i felt really drawn and it just felt really professional and it really hit my age bracket and probably even a little bit,
younger and older like it just feels like a beautiful kid shenanigans away i am.
I think the piece that is really interesting regarding the transparency the self disclosure is that it’s sorta makes them with a lot of things are there some self disclosure about like hey i been through this experience.
But then they can go through the kind goes back and says parenting and sons and i’m really kids and grief and loss and anxiety and so.
It is hard for me to get a fence away.
Oh well the shoes of size clothes and spiritual trauma and would love to have a place in my for what we do that there would be a drop down for likes beer to trauma,
and next up disclosure transparency might fit better in that area.
Then kinda before talking about doing parenting stuff like i mean i get down to the parenting stuff from looking for painting therapist because i’m kind of like oh this is for spiritual china this is what it is like from the inner,
that’s what you’re here for us it if you wanna do a lot of things with your site you have to kind of.

[6:32] Be thoughtful about how you introduce yourself and more importantly how you connect and with a client right like,
when i think about using transparent yourself disclosure it’s always about houses impacting the client and some of the clients that are coming to your to your site.
Me some of that transparent yourself disclosure or could possibly benefit them,
but there’s a ton of other crimes were doesn’t benefit them all you know my kids are control it does not benefit me to hear about what happen and so i need to,
you start to like move the things out and i really think about where that introduced and how.
It also the other piece is like i like so disclosure and i like transparency.

[7:19] I am personally back i think also sometimes people use it as like it she eats,
as like it if i say that i’ve been to the experience which i have,
then i will immediately engage with a person like they will trust me because they’ll now that i have the same experience of a dead and my that was all the trust issue.
And my steering is the that’s not the case that what they wanna hear is empathy they want focused on them they wanna all about.
How can you help how can you help how can you help and still sharing my own stuff,
can sometimes take the focus off of them and so if i can use my experience to so that as i am writing to them they’re like oh man this person is like in my head like,
start to finish she knows exactly what i’m thinking.
And like it’s almost like she’s been through it i have a question in my mind have you been through this because of how well you like put it here,
then we can even they can bring it up and we have this conversation,
person or persons while and then the other thing i views ounce of disclosure sometimes and blogs rye-bread about other people or,
my friends grandma or like i don’t like the things are story of my kind of.
And then something things just kinda keep me out of but still bring the story and as well so there some like there’s some really birthday is so many ways to use the information and use the experience but.

[8:55] Just saying we both been through the,
because every experience is so different now every impact as spurs to try and she is talking about a specific type of spiritual trauma,
and the shoes actually like hold back a little bit and think about her experience that the people have had very different,
experiences with pastors and it’s a whole different,
like exactly what happen is completely different but they have the same response i got the shades i blame myself i wonder how i didn’t see this company i wondered why put so much trust into in this person i wonder why didn’t trust my intuition,
you know something was telling me that something was wrong why didn’t i trust my prayer life flighted i,
stop playing so much like why did i start turning away from god because with this human dead what are you so angry at god right of a hundred people like,
that’s the absolute normal response to any type of turtle trump and so like you can do so many quasi uses it.
Bing connected and,
taking up all the shame of their personal experiences and seeing how they can benefit our marketing and benefit archivist on pack for but it’s not like.
It’s not like just like to say this like i am experience method balance or i’ve experienced sexual trauma i’ve experienced a car accident or whatever,
things are we in our so many things because the bedroom it’s really about like.

[10:30] Sitting at and speaking to that person the owner has we could and right that was working gas that was,
brilliant minds at lee county what’s new with you guys like the new don’t printer stop me my love you marina panel are you give me.
And even tried to know what is awesome though bro that was also i love that.
I’m still in asquith has things to say because but still well if you think that was that was great lots of stuff on the website how do you guys handle transparency.

[11:11] Well its gonna back away brand is brilliant but it you have to keep it about the client and have a purpose for every self disclosure and so if i were going to this,
website that amount of self disclosure would not a.
Would be like oh wait why she tell like too much information we don’t have a relationship yet so i think my grandmas a put in the context of.

[11:39] How it relates to me not you know he has the potential client not as the.
Yeah i get you will nobody gets anybody until you actually get to know is do not know that would hurt that would turn me on that amount returned the.
Off breakers people make the assumption a question like if it’s this much on the website how much would be in the session because and she may be a hundred percent appropriate the session recessive disclosure.
But you don’t want people ask themselves that question before the media yet tell me what you think all i have a question for julie.
And what is the problem is in this context.
As social media world lol and social media we all have will to rolls right so we are barefaced but we also have visible life’s.
Because of our other businesses.
So that’s really good money with transparency and i just wonder how you guys handle that aspect because.

[12:41] Where is your mother this week on your website with the nurse like what you prune your social media me and you maybe seen other areas of your life this is,
front me said it may not be maybe that this is the only place that you have a public in,
you might be involved in your church or wherever and people see other aspects of you that then are,
i i think it’s getting more new ones with this whole transparency stop because for me how to practice.

[13:14] Having seen a lot of therapists and also coaching live there is like it is the finally read other stories about me i’m much more interested in my coaching business,
and i wasn’t there this much more very different spoke you know and.
What’s really i just felt more comfortable how better my clients or people looking and researching me could go and,
find those things where i am being tortured here so i’m just kinda curious about that because it’s not yes transparency.
Could question for julie hey answer your is yeah so is i view it as authenticity,
and not necessary transparency i do not share every intimate detail of my past or my present life but everything i do share i want to come from a very authentic place and.

[14:13] So then the details are not.
That important selectively like i’m an open book and i because of her music career i’ve had a website for.

[14:24] Years and years decade cup your fifteen years or so why and i’ve had pressed talking about my life and you can listen my songs and he can’t get my life pass so i’m always been a lot more.

[14:38] Open about what’s going on but never detail for anything that’s kind of a different and when i am detail in mindful of,
there is no privacy on the internet and i have to be okay that everybody knows,
yes yeah so that’s great point because i think about it yes if the detail is generally in the section.
Where i need to the benefit of a client and there’s one of the process for men and.
Yeah that’s it like the way you said that that’s helpful and was like christina my wife and i have had lots of discussions about.
Is there a point when i stop publishing them monthly income reports cuz she’s like i cannot feel awkward that’s out there and like,
i will go back and forth as a couple like talking about well as one of the things that so many of my consulting clients a like i’ve why.
But there’s like that side of our personal lives there’s also like how much we put their kids and social media how much do we like have videos like all those different things.
They think right now we’re still sorting through will.
Excuse me i been impressed by you doing that like uncle sam hat in the past may,
what is so interesting to like i have been occurred to me that would be like you know what half of that by doing it like and which is ridiculous right later when.

[16:08] Occurred to me i talk to my lawyer has been like so how do you feel about killing are you think your mother or just what you think you like i was so.
I was so trained and like having no self disclosure and you know the client asked me point blank about my spiritual background or anything within the county,
accuse can’t answer those questions what so ever,
like even like asking about marry work well i’m wondering is all that you assume i’d like i had to be so.
So so so like in a box.
And sometimes it was just it was to the point of a ridiculous mess and take up more time and energy in a fashion that i need to.
So i had to be like so careful and then when the other what is the but like i had more freedom to just be real,
and to let people know no i don’t think of you said you heard god speaking at your necessarily psychotic i understand there you know we have we have a shared vocabulary you can.
Talk christian east me that’s fine and i’ll get what you’re talking about the blood of the lamb or whatever to which sounds weird in any other contacts like that we can do that.
But it was so like that with an empty guide in the mean it’s just like overtime.
You start sharing a little bit one a little bit more and what were about being married or having a child and.

[17:43] It’s really interesting well but that experience has look like and i do worry about,
what that would look like in the future for clinical practice he said we hosted a happy hour in seattle.
Like how many people came up to me or like how’s your back doing or how your two daughters and think i get that i talk about that on the podcast.

[18:06] It’s really interesting when people i don’t have a relationship with you but they know these details cuz i put him out there it’s not like anyone to blame but ice.

[18:16] If makes you think i have a friend who recently side started seeing a local therapist and on this friends like he can you help me like researches,
so i can find anything i can anyone can find all fine like then they get have a social media footprint.
There was nothing like their website was it there is nothing on facebook anyway that i could but i couldn’t find a picture i knew it this person look like.
And it was a part of me was like this is really weird but like.
They’re that locked down but then on the other side then the therapist gets to fully decide what they wanna reveal within the sessions too it’s like,
all about the client and so i can see the benefits of both obviously i reveal quite a bit about myself.

[18:55] And now.

[18:56] Investor nisha would you guys what would you recommend with her story sounds like maybe both pointing at like maranda said to show that she understands experience without going through the experience what else.
I think the location of that disclosure needs to be moved home page is really its it is confusing interns and.
He wants me more about those messages and speaking to the pain and then say okay go here go here wanted to dig into your site,
cuz why am wanting to build a relationship to get to know you better so taking summer that often moving into a bow and you put that in your story,
you don’t something a little bit more sissy and even at a just saying like a have a experience of putting my trust,
pastor later now i.
After the waitress experience you know abuse from and a lot of the people i see have experience some sort,
power play within their church it is hurting in her their relationship with god and it just goes right into that and then it in session.
Like there is more there is using is currently appropriate go for it but knew that around and make a home page really,
about the clients and the stuff about you about you.
I am still going back to the client and always at about page is just kinda like you’re the platform to springboard into.

[20:31] When addressing the concerns that being that specific on the home page maybe triggering for people and where they will believe the site because it’s just too overwhelming emotionally so that’s another.
Reason i would i would make a lot more general and move it like everyone has agreed yeah.
Yeah great on the weather and what she has opportunity to write a book.

[20:57] Play hey there are we have an amazing client.
It’s on stephen her name or just the bonobos per hour,
and she wrote just a beautiful memoir about her experience with a spouse that seem to suffer from sets of sexual addiction and there’s this.
History of lying and deceit or have you and she just told like underwear and she express that in this book and this book is so is really impacting a lot of women you haven’t had their stories.
Sharing this way.
Not really impactful within like how does that change the dynamic gray and how’s the book different than a marketing as like you know.
A book is something you want to give it and then sue a website is it bad that like initial baby,
okay we will it is an audi a marketing dating right and relationships,
it’s like it’s downloading the tinder app and maybe just scrolling through right that you’re not under right there,
buy a black like you know what you’re one against you know you wanna read and dig into this idea,
yeah you know that’s the i totally agree with you that the purpose of the website is for that person to decide are you a good fit with the purpose of a memoir is like if they didn’t talk about themselves and be really boring memoir.

[22:35] What should be yeah it what is or is.

[22:43] Okay we,
what like for the purpose of remorse to show p other people like there is a way through this and you can here it is,
it’s not the end of the world you know when you can find your way back to your face and you can find tracks.
This experience and now it is just a really lovely story highly recommended and was interested in that it is,
talk more in-depth than a blog post for someone and says the heading scans the you know title ones table two years ago this is not have to worry about has maybe triggering because i have to really agree with julie that it was like,
and it to create some reactions cell usually if you are gonna write something that is intense,
works la sit with us is so explicit but i need it’s a painful kind of thing so you can have a,
add a warning that’s what some people do when they’re about to disclose or talk about difficult things like hey this could be triggering yeah.

[23:54] So if you guys are working with her michelle or she is the most awesome conference like what would you want to sit down with her and do some laser coaching and.

[24:02] Well i broken record on this but i wanna picture on the landing right when in the top of the home page who are you.
Who is who is refuge counseling and.
In our group picture of citigroup now sweat now it’s just reshare it so i want to see a face and i cannot tell you how powerful that is and that.

[24:27] Yeah we would you want to attach to a person not a local and not just does a lot to immediately build trust and the like ability factor like oh i like them and then they’ll keep the keep going.
She is really professional photo that is on her meet her mission page will spin also like i definitely agree that should be on the front page somewhere.

[24:51] Oh yeah our future and all that is.
So powerful i just look at the picture that’s when i’m hoping yes but always reset your not the beginning started circle on the front page like.
Maybe that can be there like down by the welcome and there’s lot of places it could be.

[25:13] I write as soon as she starts to talk regulator in the welcome so.
Can be very powerful now when things to talk with ice.
And again this is a broad generalization i feed the fish you more with their cuz the color.
And i talk with a lot of there because of color to say that they purposely don’t play,
there picture on the front page because they’re trying to make a connection before someone judges for their the color of their skin,
and so i think that’s something.
All four of us is like a pretty caucasion just looking i don’t ask anybody with the wraith but we all look opinion for us to be like real about you and just bring.
And my personal like what i usually when someone brings that issue is,
we are there because of color to move past that and be out in the world we need you to normal i said that like if there be is okay we need a normal life that this is a good profession to go into now,
we have way to your therapist of color.
In our profession as a whole it’s really distressing i’m and doesn’t represent the clients you need us i’m.
So that is one of those places you know this is there is an area that’s if that is part of it,
i’m to send have think about how impactful it is for somebody of color to click on a website and actually see someone who you know has a look like them on the page.

[26:53] That’s really powerful yeah.
Why should there be a lot of other things we could talk with her for you and some laser coaching out before we close up i wanna just hear cuz this is the last time i have you guys on the podcast for a bit private last time i ever be,
what you excited about for the most awesome conference cuz i am i just can’t wait to spend a week with you guys in california and stay up late and play cards and,
also do some fun stuff to in like an hour like the conference but like what do you just a way for us to rent a house in california,
what are the three of you excited about with the most awesome conference coming up is super excited.
Bad we are challenging every single one of our participants as soon as they find,
to really r and r business plan and that works and you need to bring that with you to the conference that they need to know their numbers and have other things in place,
because i think it really helps us to not does laser coach.
In general based on what they give us but that we have some solid numbers are gone as well,
sometimes we can again we look at the numbers on the way we’re late we’re and when the wrong section right now we work on this number right here first,
before we launch the other thing and here’s a quick way that we can increase our profits by thirty percent let’s see that,
and do that for the next two hours look at your paperwork and then come back to me and let’s go to stage two so i’m really excited about.

[28:27] Really challenging their past to get the numbers together so that we can.
Ensure that we’re making the absolute best recommendations for where they are at in their work life balance and their financial health yeah it’s so funny people in a private facebook group rd starting to like.
Get excited about like there’s a common so i can leave from a and they like rd encouraging each other and their practices and where like you know still six months out which is amazing that the community thirty just like dynamic.

[29:01] Yeah i’m looking forward to spending more individual time wanna one time with that conference participants i a i love that you be able to really get to know,
who they are what their goals are now and how we can support them on,
individually i think that’s just so it’s fun to be there the group and also have individual coaching times thought so i.

[29:28] Go ahead and i am really excited to be added more time i mean you know that we have three full days and that first day of the individual time like with julie was saying.
Last time with the videos in the head shots that kinda disrupted some of the sessions and i’m excited that people are gonna get to go,
like just for that first day really just now get to know each other get to know us be doing the head shots and the videos like,
i was just talking to a potential sponsor this morning and it when i was talking through everything that they get they were like blown away,
did the professional headshot video that they got really valuable swagged bag that they got three days with us just all the things and they were when i added the food trucks are like one,
food looks amazing to have you over the next it was a flood,
so i can meet reveal the that sponsors maybe writing this cuz live will have confirmed everything up so,
i just i don’t like the people the sponsors the people to like it just feels like last year was like a great amazing time but it just feels like the second year we’re just taking our game up even more and i can’t wait to sue the impact of it.

[30:43] Yeah i think i agree with everything i said was discount was hanging back because you are so i was thinking i’ll add that.
I’m really looking for getting more stuff done.
I am because the individual coaching away we have it structured and because it’s longer i’m electricity able to do more included he should this round and we have some.
And prevent from my hiking utilities that is so,
really you don’t really listen to what happened last year what was loved and what could be improved upon in.
That’s that is my calling this is all of ours is that every year we get better and better and so looking forward to being back,
impacting is therapists and it’s amazing what has happened to last year’s and hush.
It will ever know works and i’m saying like tell us.
But just provide a forum for all these people to come together the relationships i’ve been treated how they have continue to spur each other on its.

[31:52] Wow i’m a lucky person to be able to be a part of this so.

[31:59] Yeah it’s on real it’s so cool to see the impact and to work with you guys and your last time we heard from the participants they want even more time with the four of us and so we have listened so we’re gonna have,
tons and tons of time,
and i’m just rubber having a live priest again like to have lunch mocha or latte in the morning or shot of dark all.
You i’m come bucci care on the bad guys hooked us we are come which freaks now it was purple one is ginger one oh,
if i could if we could get a sponsor and tap that into an ivy like bring the sale of a home craft goodness i’m,
oh and the least you have unleash it upon this and i family,
i have given lucian taste it the other day and she was like well so what were developing a palate,
i am a girl who can rock them anything specifically like mom i think in your multi green kombucha jack which is the one with a punk,
emily i will be late for you but,
i’ve been making green smoothies and like trying to see how much green i can get into without somebody complaining and christina always complains before the two little girls i thought of something,
they bring the green smoothies and now it’s asa.
Well thank you so much for being on the podcast for three weeks in a row you three are amazing and i just love working with you guys i appreciate so much just all that you do for the counseling world all you do in my own personal world.

[33:39] Just you know who you are as people so thanks so much for being on the podcast you’re incredible.
You the best way to get ahold of the three of you ladies can say the best website to send people to connect with you so that there go.
Julie what’s best website is in the dr julie hank sac com or yeah that’s kind of the hub of low so dr julian stuck on alright super.

[34:06] Yes all right that you add saying that way to albany is most often complex that oh hello john ran the alameda beach house if you go to that website is the most awesome.
Is that counting all four of us.

[34:24] Labor and is well way to well greater vision thanks so much for sponsoring another podcast had brighter vision back.

[34:42] Music.

[34:48] Where all that we can be doing you guys have an awesome week thanks for letting us intrude years and into your brain and will.

[34:55] Music.

[35:14] Special thanks again silence is sexy and sweet play with.

[35:25] Sure what to get or other professional information that actually should find one small sauce.

[35:34] Music.

[36:24] Charging that mean that we but they let into their colon.

[36:33] Music.

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