PoP 146 | Keynotes and Leadership an interview with Joe Calloway

Keynotes and leadership with Joe Calloway

Today we’re talking all about keynote speaking, writing books, and leadership with Joe Calloway.

Podcast Sponsor



Flow, an app and software company with hopes to elevate the mental health community by strengthening the connections you have with your colleagues. Build a professional network full of the people you know and trust. See up to date details of their practice and current availability so that you can refer to them easier. Discover new people you’d like to get to know. And, hear the latest news on topics that you care about most and discuss with colleagues in a private, secure social network.

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Meet Joe Calloway



Joe Calloway helps great companies get even better. His workshops and interactive keynote presentations help develop leaders, create more effective teams, and improve performance for successful businesses who know that they can, and should, be doing more with the people and resources that they already have.

Joe’s client list reads like an international Who’s Who in business, ranging from companies like Proctor & Gamble and Coca Cola to Cadillac and American Express. Joe also works extensively with small to mid-sized businesses, franchisees, and a range of professional services organizations.

Get Joe’s video courses here’s the link

About Joe…

  • Executive In Residence at Belmont University’s Center For Entrepreneurship, which has been named as a national Top 25 Undergraduate Entrepreneurship Program by the Princeton Review (for five consecutive years). The program was featured by Fortune magazine as one of five schools to consider when studying entrepreneurship.
  • Author of seven books on business performance, including Becoming A Category of One, Be The Best At What Matters Most, Magnetic: The Art Of Attracting Business, and the soon to be released Keep It Simple.
  • Consultant and advisor to business leaders, owners, and entrepreneurs.
  • Real estate investor/developer in projects throughout the mid-south.

Joe has presented at business conferences and events in countries around the world including Italy, Sweden, South Africa, England, Swaziland, Canada, Mexico and throughout the Caribbean. Although Joe has been inducted into the Speakers Hall of Fame, he doesn’t do traditional “speeches.” Instead, Joe actively engages people in highly interactive keynotes and workshops that challenge assumptions and create new ways of thinking.

Joe lives in Nashville, Tennessee with his wife, Annette, and their daughters, Jessica and Cate.

Mentioned in the Podcast


Meet Joe Sanok

consultant headshot JoeJoe Sanok, MA, LLP, LPC, NCC is one of the world’s leading private practice consultants. He is the owner of the Traverse City counseling practice, Mental Wellness Counseling. Joe helps counselors to start private practices and grow them.



Podcast Transcription

Pop 146 | Keynotes And Leadership An Interview With Joe Calloway

[0:00] Music.

[0:08] This is the practice of the practice podcast with joe sanok session number one forty six.

[0:14] Music.

[0:27] Hi I’m Joe Sanok your host and i am.
So excited that you’re here today i just got to have lunch with this guy in the from grand rapids big shout out to in the,
he is about to graduate from grad school in counseling and he reached out to me and said he’s gonna be in traverse city.
Suing get lunch together and it was so fun to just hang out so if your ever in the traverse city area and you want to get lunch like reach out let’s hangout it be fun.
I’ve got some of my Pinot and practice people there actually flying in to hang out for 2 days but yeah even if you’re just like vacationing in northern Michigan let’s hang out and meet in person.
And live here in the radio center to building in beautiful downtown traverse city its blue skies and blue water and sail boats.
Tonight my wife is gonna be out racing sailboats while i watch our daughters on the beach and it’s just gonna be awesome a i love living in northern michigan.
Well today our show is sponsored by flow app for therapists of flowtherapist.com/joe you can head over there.
It is social network built for therapists that you can make sure that you know,
exactly who has openings in your area what they do share details through the network to cord courtney local events on you can choose your level of privacy,
share with direct colleagues sure with cow.

[1:57] It’s amazing it’s exactly what purpose need to head on over to flowtherapist.com/joe.
To learn more about the actually giving you a free thirty day trial instead of the typical one week trial yeah things lot flow for being a sponsor.
But let me tell you about joe calloway joe calloway is the guy i’m interviewing today and he how.
And his workshops interactive keynote presentations hope thought leaders creative teams and improving performance but what i really wanted to talk with him about today.
Was not just can’t of being a thought leader,
in disguise.
It’s amazing he’s written so many books he has seven books and business performance including becoming a category of one.
Be the best at what matters most.
Magnetic the art of attracting business and keep it simple this guy is a power house in the business world and if i never heard of them and that’s okay that’s why you tune in here to get to know these amazing people,
are he’s going to reveal some amazing speaking techniques ways to network ways to grow as a leader in business and he’s just a really fun guy we really connected,
and i’m so excited to introduce you to joe calloway welcome to the practice of the practice podcast.

[3:31] Great to be here joe for having me yeah absolutely will you are a writer is,
the care of business guy there so many directions we could go today but why don’t we just start with can it tell me a little bit about yourself about your time in nashville and can’t work you do.
Okay yeah i live in nashville tennessee with my wife and two daughters who are ages ten and fourteen which,
keeps me on my toes to say the least will either daughters too so we may have time after getting a place for me and that i owe him six it’s not a fair fight believe me i am out doing.
My minor five and almost two so i’ll her for the year will match you know and actually that’s,
to me that’s the most important thing to know about me i’m in taking jesse’s dad and,
bitch mom ain’t going for my work i’ve been doing what i.
Into mostly business audiences but even a lot of nonprofits I work with professional practice groups.

[4:43] And is it or speak it business advancements conventions and then i’m also doing actually mail,
you know joe what he used.
Am i do not like working with,
with people that have a professional practice i’m actually moving more in that direction myself i’m moving from doing a lot of the,
convention speaking to do and a lot more one on one coaching in small group consulting so,
that’s a world that I’m getting more deeply into it you’re doing the reverse of me I’ve been doing the individual counseling coaching small group coaching and small conferences wanted to do bigger conferences and,
your moving away from those money orders part of that is simply the.

[5:38] Been there done that you know how i’ve done to big events for so long bit it’s kinda loose in the middle,
a little bit of juice in it for me creatively like nail being able to work with a smaller group and one on one work with actually number of other,
people the wrong impression speaking helping them,
craft beer presentations and do some coaching and i really enjoy that.
Actually go that may be my favorite thing to do is the writing a love ideas love the writing process and so bitch that’s very fulfilling to me i get a huge kick out of writing,
now when you’re writing where do you find inspiration like what’s your process you know.

[6:35] I feel like my job is to understand what works for businesses.

[6:43] And so that means that i have to constantly and when i say concert mean,
every day stay on top of what’s happening in the world of business well how are people change the,
changing the way they make buying decisions just stopped hongkong bailey pollution them all.
It’s so i get a lot of ideas simply from observing marketplace and am i’m either blessed or cursed with being incredibly curious love new ideas sometimes,
to a fault because i’ll have a perfectly good idea at i’m working on but then it’s like oh squirrel oh i hear you only dasher group get look at that bright shiny i be over there,
So electronically trans and you’ve been have as you’ve been reading this book what did you notice what are things are standing up to that are working.

[7:41] You know there there’s a handful of things one thing that is affecting everybody,
in my last book or my current book the newest one that’s actually out is called magnetic,
the part of attracting business and when it does it takes a look at,
the most the i mean there’s no debate about this the single most important factor,
in people’s buying decisions regardless of what their by regardless of where they’re digging out what hotel to go to on a vacation,
what new smartphone to buy or youtube it higher is an account of the moved to a new town,
what people are influenced by more than anything else,
is all well and good i wanna know what the people who do business with you say about your business,
whoever you know face to face neighbors friends family but now there’s this thing called the internet and i would wager that,
the most part for most people listening to us right now in the last week you’ve been on the internet more than once.
To see what people think about something that they are considering and so.
But the idea is how do you get your present customers your present clients to influence the market in your favor and drive people to you.

[9:20] Yep that’s one of the.
Big trends direct so one question that’s can a particular the counselors so for counselors in private practice most of are ethics.
What what are some ways the.
We can maybe in an ethical way for can directly ask people that with our own personal networks within our own influence in our own towns that we can.
Can you turn the mark in our favor with this new review based economy i think you can simply have,
absolutely ethical know all tear your motive conversations about your practice with your with your existing clients and,
i know when i’m when i’m giving a speech,
and this is quite naturally just a part of my speech i use a lot of examples now it’s different if you’re a cancer you couldn’t do exactly there’s cause it involves,
talking bout other clients but when i’m giving a speech i’ll say you know i was working with a company recently that had this challenge and here’s how we approached and so.
What i do is talk to people about the fact.
That i love working with other people i loved working with for example when you ask me what’s up with me at the start of this.

[10:52] Podcast i talked about him my practice is moving from large corporations to small businesses and so that i wasn’t that’s not a pitch but it just occurred to me that does.
I guess plan b d o okay so can we like to work with small businesses and then who knows three months from now or small business may.
Say to wonder lester go wish i had somebody that could help me with the us,
well i heard a guy a couple of months ago talking about think you does that sort of thing in again i totally understand getting counseling there is,
it’s a it’s a whole different shirt picture but i think what was great that i would just put a high later under is if you don’t know who you’re trying to attract it’s really hard in those natural conversations or in just,
you being yourself to really put out there you’re moving toward small business and you know that about yourself and you’ve done the work to figure where do i wanna go with my own consulting,
bit so many weather counselors are small business owners i think,
they just throw it out there and they don’t really even know who they’re trying to attract so there are dogs are all over the place all over the place.
That’s a great point in la.
What do you do you could say i’m a cancer and leave it at that or you could say you know.
I have a counseling practice and i work with people who indian indicated in you simply are describing.

[12:28] Not only what you do it could also be what you want to attract absolutely.

[12:34] Why no for a while my kinda tagline for myself was i do counseling and help angry kids frustrated parents and distant couples.
And then usually people kind of chocolate do i that’s about everybody but at least they have had a picture of his angry kids punch holes in the wall of parents are pulling their hair out or couples that just really distant from each other,
so even just me or the cat started conceptualized the work you do i think it’s on our.
What’s so what’s the name of your new book is coming out.
The new book which is coming out in august is called keep it simple.
And it’s about the power it’s a very simple book it very it’s very different format than all my previous books its got a lot of graphics in it’s not your typical rectangular book it’s a square book,
in it.
In thirty minutes but it’s it’s a book that tries to can.
To m body the message that it carries what you which is it’s incredibly,
powerful to simplify your thinking,
to simplify your you know something joe i have a lot of fun with one thing but when i am working with an audience unless there’s question i’ll stay in how many of you.
Have this door on a fairly regular basis the thought is you know i think i’m making this way more complicated than you will every day and in the real.

[14:08] Yeah i’d to come over gosh i over.
Things to pieces i’m so guilty of that,
but i really it it’s an idea that started weaving in business presentations and it just.
The importance of it and the power of it grew with me until finally i thought you know this is this is a whole topic just on its own,
you when i asked about inspiration you said can everyday years staying in with what’s going on a business world how do you take all of those ideas can say you have five to ten a day min three thousand ideas are reservations a year.
How do you take all that and put it together in a book that is gonna take some interest system or mine center that would be the are attracting business or keeping it simple like.
What’s your process for organizing all those thoughts and ideas.
Good question first of all there’s a filter when i’m writing a book for example let’s go back to the magnetic your attracting business i was very specifically going to write about that.

[15:16] That phenomenal today of people actively seeking out the recommendations be they positive or negative.
Of other people and how much of it happens on the internet well so now look up i can describe it this way.
If you were to buy a brand new yellow volkswagen beetle tomorrow all of a sudden you would start noticing,
open your books working beatles in traverse it right it’s all my gosh i never realized there were so many of them because mirror in ten or out you have this during that will filter,
when i’m working on a book is that i can feel for.
Out beyond ideas that.
If i pick the best breaks forward is my antenna are out looking for those particular ideas.

[16:19] You know i got my wheel house of what i do i mean not get colds fairly frequently from.

[16:27] Could i get one the other day it was not to call which usually me mail these days an organization that said listen were a sales organization do you work with sales groups so yeah for we offer and they say well we need somebody who can help us,
when we are pitching the company for vanessa will you need,
are filling specialist i talk to sales groups.
It’s more about help but think about their work what about how to make things simpler for example.
I said let me direct you to some people that i think can help you and i could have done the program for them but it would of got me off track it’s not.
It’s not what i do best and over the years i’ve learned.

[17:17] I think we’re most powerful things any of us can do powerful in a very positive sense is to learn to say no a lot more often than we do.
And you find that people that are earlier in their career and i don’t mean just age wise but that maybe earlier even specialty say yes to more things in the shed cuz they just want the business or what you see in the people that are cuz just starting out.

[17:42] Are those pitfalls saying no or that they may be screw up a little bit and you said it perfectly and i’ve been there i’ve been there and i’ve done that.
Which is you know of just started my business i walk to work i need i need the money in so somebody calls an update on my gosh.
No that’s not really what i do but can’t do it in so i can write phrase yeah exactly and that’s index understandable and i think,
that can be okay to a point because your still finding that out what your parameters should be one of my face,
favorite quote joe read this is about five years ago warren buffett you know the multi billionaire business guru i just love this and it seems,
counter intuitive at first but if you think about it makes sense he said the difference between successful people and very successful people.
Is that very successful people say no to almost everything in and the faking there is bet you reach your.
They’re all in you pick a lane and.
And you say yes to the listener thinking our personal lives not gotten much better at it in an invitation to something that twenty years ago i would’ve said okay and i would have gone and when i got there i would’ve thought.

[19:14] What am i doing you know we all,
i have the three and i think part of it is just comes with age is you learn to say thank you very much but no i’m gonna you know i’m gonna be with my family that night or whatever it may be that’s thinks,
boyhood motor to walk or ride videos shut simplify and say no.

[19:38] Yeah i i think i was,
in that idea that you know i’m saying yes to my free time i’m saying yes to being with my family and saying yes just not heating.
Crappy dinner at some fundraise i don’t wanna be at or me its important to that other person but it’s not important to me in that i think that,
that idea i was really lucky that is turned on the radio that day in and her that advice and it stop because it’s been so how,
lol to her tell me be able to say no to things and not feel guilty about it cuz i’m and saying yes to all these other things i care more about.

[20:21] You know what its money go last night i was invited to a fund-raiser for a local political candidate that i’m very much in support of contributed to his campaign and the fundraiser was gonna go from,
5:30 until 8 and he was going to speak well I’m very much,
discuss in so i got there right at five thirty i said hi to him used hide the key people,
come by and let you know that i’m so still in your corner and i wish you all the luck in the world i was there about fifteen minutes.
It came back home,
to return to the other activities which included having dinner and reading a book but it doesn’t work that didn’t have other things to do in the river a personal things and i have already heard discuss campaign,
speed but you know it wasn’t that long ago that i worked oh my gosh.
I’ve got to go and stay the whole three hours and i would have resented it which wouldn’t have been fair to anybody would’ve just been silly,
well and to give yourself that permission to say this is what’s gonna work for me and it really,
we really value his time and get a word and will add yeah i think it’s just way on-line of,
i love what you said a few minutes ago and of course it’s a variation of the when one door closes another door opens but i love that idea that when you say no to one thing if you’re saying yes to order that’s strong.

[22:03] Yeah yeah i’m getting yesterday so i’ve been this summer taking mondays and fridays off just,
trying to see if i can do it in the summer time and i’m in traverse is beautiful in the summer and so we’re stand up paddle boarding with some friends and i are for your or five year old and a two year old around the boards with us and,
i to call eleven fifteen and we literally got off the water at like eleven ten and i just had my phone with me and.
We’re walking back to house for their paddle boards and doing this phone call for,
that was one of those things where i knew what i could do and that was the phone call and we had rescheduled a bunch of times to make it happen but,
i also knew that the paddle boarding was the most important thing for me to have that socialization and for us to just be getting some exercise in the water with their kids.
And what’s incredibly fascinating is that i am on the paddle board right now seriously that’s awesome and i saw the video you that the password for,
it’s like there’s a queen second now maybe has what you know there’s always like can a training program the house maybe indoor boards to build his core international standing desk at the standing paddle board is,
but i’m actually saving the that’s great wall so tell me a little bit go about speaking and particularly for people are just starting i know the year,
you people are approaching you but some people like myself are self publish some books i’ve got a bit of momentum.
For people like myself what would you advise in regards to speaking more you’ve done a couple of key notes like where do people go after they started to land a couple of those bigger gigs.

[23:41] Yeah a couple of things number wonder a lot of people when you notice cuz you started getting into their aboard there’s a lot of people after speaking a lot more joe dinner use to be i mean a whole lot more so what that means is,
every potential client me you’ve got to show them.
Front very clearly and very quickly here’s the value.
Did i deliver you cannot just be interesting.
Because there are there.

[24:20] You’ve got to when a group is looking at fifty choices and of who they could bring in to speak to you if their mating.
You’ve got to give them a reason to pick you instead of the other fourteen who were also very good at what they do it in so i think what that mean she has,
and this gets back to what we were talking about earlier for you say yes to what just about any customer you gotta pick a lane.
And i think it really smart to.

[24:54] Specialize either in your content i’m in expert on the subject z,
and i can speak about it to any number of different kinds of groups but i am an expert on this one thing or.
To specialize in your target audience which is i speak to sales groups i speak to.

[25:20] Small business owners or both,
i’m a specialist in content and i specialize in a particular audience suzuki if you try to go to broad then you simply don’t give anybody a hook,
a finger head on at a c speaker sometimes to have tinder work subjects i mean.
From ten managment took olmstead into sales about is that were you you’re not an expert in anything,
just you just dabble in a lot of things another approach to speaking is to have a personal story,
book is incredibly compelling and it the.

[26:06] A meeting planner will think are people need to your her story.
Because it will benefit us in whatever way to speaker i don’t have a store.
I don’t do not kill the joke always to re cuz that’s not what i do i talk about what works in the market place in.
I think it’s real important now in coaching speakers the single most common.

[26:34] Mistake in challenge is a look at all the material and i can’t quite understand what they do.
I mean i get kind of a general idea but it’s just.
It’s there’s not enough clarity on what you do and why anyone should how you do it so i think that’s probably a good word to for umbrella for everything i just said which is get clarity.
So i mean i guess my question even has the assumption that you should be speaking.
Make the case for why people should speak why they shouldn’t speak is it a good use of their time to be putting the all that effort into going and speaking to then.
You know help your bottom line will here’s the thing when you’re it’s funny.

[27:25] Somebody said to me just a few weeks ago.
Set will your way past the point of having to give three speeches and so it will well that’s that you’re mistaken in your assumption last i guess was november.
I spoke for free.

[27:43] Tuesday Nashville Tennessee downtown Rotary Club the current president she’s an old friend of mine she calls he said I know this is the longest shot in the world but would you come speak to the Rotary Club,
she said for lunch and I said Teresa I’ll be there in a heartbeat because I know who belongs to.
Who goes to the national record not only did i speak for free joe i gave every person there were about two hundred fifty a free copy of my newest book.
I am in from that the total is now up to six.
For free speaking engagements that i got in so you don’t have to be a speaker to promote.
Your practice or your business or whatever you do back speaking i mean in one way it’s a great way to help.

[28:38] A hundred people five hundred people fifty people to really helpful in giving something of value at the same time if there’s a hundred people in the audience.
You’re making effect hundred sales calls and all at one time simply by.
Telling them whatever it is that you tell me if your speaking for a benny been.

[29:01] Yeah i mean if that is your business but the speaking itself i’d give you a really good tip go to my friend jane atkinson i’m gonna give everybody a website speakerlauncher.com in your older you’ll see a book.

[29:21] Two books actually the wealthy speaker and the wealthy speaker two point and they are to reflect day or if ever there was a good.
Introduction to the speaking business the world of page speaking.
Man that’s a great resource thank you for that i have a link to that the show notes for everybody in case you’re running or driving or stand up paddle boarding right now.

[29:43] I have,
well initially said you gave away your book so talk a little bit about the power of having a book to a give a way to sell and maybe even like,
is it better to focus on getting just some books out there like self publishing vs trying to find a traditional publisher share a little bit about that as a positioning can a tool for you.
Yeah that’s changed over the last two years it used to be that if you self publish the book it was like oh well that’s not a serious book that’s not true anymore they’re there a lot of people there a lot of very serious.
Respected writers and experts that are nail self publishing because you can self publish a book and you can put it up for sale on amazon yourself.
I mean that it’s the distribution has changed so dramatically,
but you don’t have to have a publisher to get your book out there,
anymore now there is still a certain cachet in a certain prestige i guess to having the publisher.
And there’s no question about that but you don’t have to.
You can but listen it when people call me and say how do i get a publisher my first question is why do you want to publish.
And so will want to get a book out there and so will what what’s the purpose of your book and they say well i want to sell it in the back of the room after i speak.

[31:13] I say we’ll why you need a publisher you have a publisher gonna be they’re gonna keep all the money right if you self publish.
You could pick a ninety five percent of the money so there can be a.
Underwater books out there on on self publishing you can google it darling the late.
Use a good friend of mine Dan pointer I think it’s Joe Poynter he was the guru of self-publishing,
you can just google his name and you’ll see a pic is it got a book or something like the self publishing bible or something like that,
the thing about,
publishers now unless you’re incredibly well-known if you’re writing non fiction particularly a business book or well just nonfiction journal a lot of times the publishers first question is,
to get to the author is okay how are you gonna sell this book.

[32:14] And the letter writer six locked up the publisher sold book know the publisher prints the book you sell the book in english you or.
Truly john grisham or a celebrity the publisher does not go out and sell your book for you have to sell the book yourself read whether you self publish your ready to publish listen publish a book.

[32:38] Id love my seven to book is about to come out and i am ninety percent responsible for getting that book so it’s on me.
Yellow publishing company help with connections there interviews or do you have to set all that up as well as the if you.

[32:58] Again if you’ve got just blockbuster ready for a book that you are a proven quantity if you’re recognized expert in your field than a puncture marks and spencer money on you but if not.
I mean I had my publisher his is hired a couple of new your forms for me and done some promotion but only after I had sold a whole bunch of blunts already.
You know it was like my third and fourth to just book that the publisher jumped in and started doing some promotion while i listen up i’ve had.
Perspective writer say to me will woman publisher,
show me on the book to work to book stores around the country and is it if you tell your publisher you want to do a book tour bill say,
what’s good for you let us know how i can book tours by the way to your ego was gotta be intact,
listen that if there was a notice in the paper that in kansas city that said joe calloway will be at barnes and noble study his new book on saturday afternoon is not a whole lot of people that are gonna say,
honey look Joe Cowboys Barnes & Noble,
let’s go do i always feel so bad,
a band playing had a bunch of food and had some beverages and invited my friends and so i thought if nothing else i can write off a party for my friends and if people happen to show up.

[34:35] Awesome if not we just had a big party at this book store it was the best way to do it for me cuz you know i signed a couple bucks but then it was it was totally just a band that i like,
played there we had some good food and drinks and a lot of fun and so for me like that was like way better than sitting in front of a table for day.
That is exactly the way to do it i’ve had him i’ve had writer so look here’s the deal.
The only thing that happened on a book tour was made friends with a couple of the bookstore employees and hopefully they will say nice things about the book to people but.
Oh people have a lot of ideas about how to make a book successful and they do this.

[35:15] No it’s really hard work to sell a book i’m not saying don’t write and sell a book on all fours listen for me.
If somebody calls me and or if i get in the mail or speakers bureau says joe it’s between you and five other speakers i say give me their address and let me send them a couple of books.

[35:36] What is the time that’s what that’s what does the deal.
They look at my books and go oh my gosh this is good stuff let’s hard disk so it’s a great way,
tune to sell yourself so sounds like speaking and book writing,
yeah although you can make some money on it really is a means to and that’s where you’re gonna get the consulting clients that’s where you’re gonna be able to grow more into your specialty than that that being your only thing that you’re doing,
the most exactly now there are some people.
Particularly motivation speakers that maybe have a story about overcoming the hardship.

[36:19] Where do you something extraordinary about their life those audiences want.
They wanna take home.
A piece of that story with them it’s a very emotional experience and those are people that it,
there are a thousand people and those are speakers that after a thousand people in the audience.
Dial my cell seven hundred books and they might make more money off of the book salesman they do off the speaking fee but.
That’s a very particular kind of speaker of the again it does get does usually some real emotional component going on there.
Yeah well i’m interested in other business translate ninety you have your antenna up all the time what else are you seeing in the business world that we should know about.
She will i’m seeing i work a lot with out can return involve myself as an investor in advisor.
In in a couple of start up companies and how could i was just recently amending my tenure as the this is the longest title in the lowest paying job i’ve ever had my wife jo for the last year i had been the executive in residence.
Belmont university’s center for entrepreneurship which means i was working with college students mostly seniors who have started their own businesses and graduate that’s what they’re doing for a living.

[37:46] One thing that i’m seeing one tree and is a lot more people than ever before ever it in he.
Are starting their own business and one of the things that a notch for new world.
Has to have as part of the bunch that is that failure is part of it on me in total failure although that can happen to but.

[38:13] Got to be okay with trying things that don’t work.
And successful entrepreneurs will say okay i’ve started three successful businesses i have started thirty seven businesses that they all.

[38:32] In you listen i only have one business for over thirty five years but within that one business.
Oh my gosh could review list.
Of things that i thought were the greatest idea in history and it turns out that i was the only one who thought it was not yourself exactly did even though it was a good idea but in so.
I think one three and is that businesses in general are much more willing to try things.
With the idea that look if it doesn’t work we will at least get some good information from them the whole Lean Startup shift happened in the last 10 or 20 years.
We got like in a relations and have a changing as you go rather have that perfect product of the beginning hoping people buy it.
Absolutely as a matter of fact one of my favorite sayings is.

[39:29] Oh okay curious if it’s worth doing it’s worth doing wrong soon.
Rename it if you wait until you know for sure that it’s gonna work perfectly you’re gonna wait forever.
You’re you’re probably never gonna do it and even if you do eventually do it you will possibly have missed the window of opportunity because the marketplace would change by the time we get around to it and so,
yeah there’s a balance to joe because.
I also see a lot of people but will try because their family and their friends have told them that’s the best idea ever heard,
there’s a big difference between your friends telling you all this is you’re a genius this is fabulous and a stranger same,
here’s like credit card will give you my money for that,
so we can we can fall in love with their own ideas its funny there’s a can of the country and people say some people say will as long as you’re passionate about what you’re doing you will succeed,
no that’s for.

[40:49] Post the compression about what you’re doing can cloud your judgement.
He can collect your objectivity about it now don’t get me wrong um i’m not saying it’s a bad thing to be patient but i’m saying don’t let that.
Overwhelm your judgement about things yeah i think that when you’re so close to project or an idea and you’ve you know,
you’re just excited about it that it’s you’re the heart is hardest for you to see all the reasons that he could go wrong i read this book decisive recently,
one of the big themes of it was to try to disprove yourself i’m the effective decision makers try to disprove whatever they feel a certain,
and for meeting really helpful that can play the devil’s advocate with myself with projects and work around here what.
What if i spend the time on this and it does nothing but what will i missed out by not staying in my lane vs maybe this is good to level up in this other area so that’s been really helpful that can i take that approach.
You love that tell you something else heard from a friend about and who’s in advisor to oxford numbers and growing businesses she said also when you think about the risk of doing it also considered the flip side.
What’s the risk if i don’t do it what do a potentially lose by not trying this,
we seldom look at it from the very end of the telescope we always think okay what’s the risk if i try this will there’s also a risk if you don’t try to.

[42:20] And is the risk of a missed opportunity so all of this is a balance and am such a fan of,
of question,
you can get caught in a net to the point.
The big just gets stuck in indecision yeah well until i just a couple more questions i’m really interested in how,
you structure your time cuz you’re using a highly efficient person gets a lot done but what’s your typical work week look like and maybe how is that changed over time.
I get a lot done but i do it and i’m not saying this in self-deprecating manner it’s just a descriptive manner i’m really color sloppy.
In the way to my work i’m not real disciplined i not am one of those people that.
I’ll be working on something and something will come up over here.
I’ll leave when i’m working man times out of ten to take care of this other thing and then go back to what i’m working though and a lot of a fishing see experts say that is one hundred percent wall,
but i should put those interruptions aside will you know i’m old enough to know that’s just the way i do it used,
here is my secret weapon up and go no kidding i get up really early in the morning i mean.
Five o’clock sometimes four thirty because i know my own rooms and the most productive time of day and not most productive time of day is free dawn and dawn that’s what i do my best thinking.

[43:57] That’s what i do my best creative work and i know that about myself and i am a morning person so i used that a leverage it um with the bed most nights.

[44:10] Two o’clock in the know read for thirty minutes and then come out while.

[44:17] Hey morning people always i wish i could be a morning person i just i just can’t listen know if just a defective i have three agents.
Did they are at their best director p creatively from midnight to two in the morning.

[44:35] But that’s a bit finch the real them that’s its i think that’s fine you just gotta come to get in touch with when you do your best work and get in touch with your own particular style and then use that as leverage.
Yeah i think nine the new and that’s when i like just after my coffee can kick in a little bit like i’m good to go,
yeah well joe if every counselor in the world were listening right now and lettuce and every business leader in the world because i know we have a lot of non counselors there listening now as well so it every small business owner listen right now,
what would you want them to know.
You know what a circle back to input to ideas together that we talked about earlier honestly think that one of the most.

[45:19] Powerful and productive things we can do is to get,
did get absolute clarity on the on the kind of business that we want to be doing an account of people or,
quieter companies um excuse me that we want to be working with indian back up a step and say okay and what value.
Play or any of the bag you that i bring to that particular marketplace i think just the idea of getting cleared in the course that includes simplified getting clarity on.
On what you want to be doing do you want to be doing it with and what value you bring to the.
Go calloway thanks so much for being on the show if people want to connect with you and connect with your work with the best place to find more about you.
Adjust the website joecalloway.com and,
this is a cool thing we’re proud of this if they go to the website and go to the videos page scroll down to the bottom,
if they can download for free twenty one short.
Motivation all slash leadership slash business idea videos better about two minutes each.
Good idea we use to sell those on the dvd for gosh for four hundred ninety five dollars and then one day we do to each other to,
what you just put the website drivable what that’s great well have a link to that the show notes and if i can figure how to embed some of those and just on the show notes of you that to.

[46:57] Okay hurry thank you so much for being on the practice of the practice podcast.
Thanks for having to do with the pleasure have a great day you two.

[47:06] Music.

[47:29] As a result of cat talking with joe i’m gonna be has simplifying some of practiceofthepractice.com to just make.
More clear and more clear more better just to make it over all.
Just straight forward to help you find what you’re looking for easy rather than having quite as many buttons and options and so you can see incoming pie month or so some redesign especially in the menu,
to help people especially based on what stage are and if your just starting practice all the resources around that.
If you are growing practice your future trying to move towards consulting to make them or more clear as to how to do that.
But reading steve jobs biography and it’s amazing to see the behind the scenes of how apple has systematically tried to move away,
from having multiple products which is to handful products really well.
Answer for me really thinking through how can i do that how can i make it more clear make it can a better over all.
I’m so into that thinking through it trying to find some ways to keep it simple and joe calloway has been one of the people that have helped that process.
So thanks for having go things go from being on the show and thanks for letting me into yours and into your brain have an amazing week.

[48:50] Also don’t forget to check out flowtherapist.com/joe that is where you can check out the flow app for therapists which is amazing.

[48:59] Keep that in mind and head over to show no specs approx that count for slash one session one forty six for links to all the stuff we talked about today if.

[49:09] Music.

[49:30] Special thanks man silence is sexy and sweet play like music and this podcast is designed by an accurate and thirty of information in regards to subscribe to cover skin with the understanding that the host,
or the publisher or the gas surrounding legal accounting clerical or other professional information being professional is finally to.

[49:49] Music.

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