Today we’re talking all about the awkward stages you go through when breaking into private practice with Allison Puryear and Jane Carter.
Meet Allison Puryear
Allison Puryear is an LCSW with a nearly diagnosable obsession with business development. She has started practices in three different cities and wants you to know that building a private practice is shockingly doable when you have a plan and support. You can download a free private practice checklist to make sure you have your ducks in a row, get weekly private practice tips, and join the Abundance Practice-Building Group to gain the confidence and tools you need to succeed.
Meet Jane Carter
Jane Carter, LPC is is committed to the growth and success of therapists in private practice. She is founder of the National Association of Counselors in Private Practice, and is a successful therapist and private practice consultant in Asheville, North Carolina. Jane enjoys helping therapists successfully balance the roles of clinician & entrepreneur through a combination of marketing skills and mindset strategies.
For more information, click here.
Meet Joe Sanok
Joe Sanok, MA, LLP, LPC, NCC is one of the world’s leading private practice consultants. He is the owner of the Traverse City counseling practice, Mental Wellness Counseling. Joe helps counselors to start private practices and grow them.
Pop 151 | Brew Your Practice With Allison Puryear And Jane Carter[0:00] Music. [0:24] Welcome to the practice the practice podcast and go soccer hose,
your life that you center to building in beautiful downtown traverse city michigan,
it’s an awesome day here and I actually have two of my favorite Consulting friends here I’ve Jean Carter and Allison career lady how ladies how you doing.
Good bye to hate the idea right now who’s you guys are here and we’re hanging out his word to an event together at the end of september but before we even talk about that,
we’re gonna talk about middle school and high school and funny and awkward stories and what that has to do with private practice so wish we start. [1:11] The first time you talked in your naked was gonna again and i did not do it january talking on the phone and it was just like i was between meetings and i had to go to my physical therapy and then start in like a minute to get in the pool,
silently change my clothes when i had my head talking to her first so as first phone calls go that one was my memorable,
is that we were gonna start has already left my taxes on,
good stories of the night despite the time,
tell me a little bit about awkward middle school past well said this all came about because,
gene in my head this conversation where i called her crying during my lunch last year and you know you’re my friend if i call you crying so.
We had a whole conversation about the awkwardness of up leveling and ss and how hard it is and all of that and so she made,
when she called me crying the next week during her lunch and she was like it’s just like being in middle school,
dance and so ever since then we’ve,
for like over a year we’ve been kind of trying things back and forth about the development stages of private practice or business building so,
yeah I guess I can have it off middle schooler Jr High wear,
for people who were planning on private practice they might be an agency at the states and their looking kind of. [2:44] Admiringly at the people who were in private practice the feeling really awkward there observing and seeing how it’s done i don’t really understand all the dynamics and they’re trying to get a good hold of that,
it also feels like there’s always competition and your just like.
This kid who doesn’t have their stuff together when really everybody at that stage is just like and david and their worry about themselves so it’s really normal to feel less than and it you really have to go through the super awkward seeds,
so [3:17] Go ahead yeah there’s no way around the awkwardness you have to go through that sooner or later and one of the things that we. [3:26] We’re talking about two in the picture that middle school dance everyone assumes that everyone’s watching them and evaluating them that really they’re just thinking about themselves and how they’re doing and,
often we can feel that way when we’re getting started on our practice or when we’re,
even considering at that i talked to my consulting clients about fear of being seen and.
Middle schoolers they desperately want to be seen but also terrified of being seen especially if it’s a dance floor especially if you’re five eleven at.
Thirteen years old you know about not drying from personal experience that you know are,
i am not getting surgery,
it’s such an interesting analogy i’ve never thought of because when you are first starting practices that you know just enough to be dangerous oftentimes only vacuum i like first website,
and i look back at least some of the ways they did things when i first started in what to me seemed like marketing but it was really just be like.
A problem like its printing every just blasting my social media with just i practice every practice and like you looking middle schoolers and the like no just enough to be dangerous oftentimes,
we’re like they may not know the dance moves but they know that someone else is worse than them and someone else is a little better than them,
i think the idea of middle school being an analogy for when you first start out that it’s unnecessary awkwardness such a good analogy. [4:52] Haha when the things to like that fear of being criticized fear of being seen like you’re the choice of the bills will stand still a stay on the sidelines and look at everybody else and judge them.
Or you can just get out there and your full on awkwardness and shake it in a great time,
in your awkwardness if you just accept it that’s how it’s going to be so funny cuz I had a friend in middle school and so,
my lips are very slow but my mom always made me dance with her in the kitchen cuz she said girls like a guy,
and dance and so from like the youngest age i remember she that make me dance are there in the kitchen i thought it was the worst thing in the world,
but then when i could dance in like other guys could not wait this is pretty sweet so in love this one friend of mine he knew that i had a couple of dance moves,
and i came over to his house that you have to teach me the running man like and for like hours i taught in running and which was like really nigga early nineties and the roger rabbit and all these other like dance moves that you can. [5:55] I get stand out because you wanted to impress a girl because he is going to going to this dance and bid me on the ski hill.
So i says to remember that him being super awkward and like i wasn’t great at the running man but i was just a step ahead of them and so he invited me to be his consultant,
actually told Allison and gearing up for this episode I was listening to early 90’s hip hop,
vanilla ice just played here in traverse city and i missed it haha okay what oven mitts that has stopped. [6:31] What is the point actually and i’m gonna throw in there for going with parallels is that in the same way that.
You know when going through it feels like torture you about that awkwardness of middle school but also awkwardness that we feel when we’re first going into practice and it feels like everyone else knows what they’re doing and we don’t.
We actually look back on that time and reminisce and feel wistful about it in tango that was actually kinda fun and cute and it you know it can feel so scary and hard as it’s happening but.
If you are in that stage actress also enjoy it you know,
dance yeah hook so what happens in like the high school of private practice um. [7:17] On something your with high school so this may be sort of the you know you’re in a group practice or you’re really just trying to go out on your own you’ve got some more freedom but you can still get.
Grounded if you don’t follow somebody else’s rules your start to get a little more comfortable in your own skin but you’re still trying on,
different identities seven differences you might be starting to take matching seriously just making some mistakes are still learning.
This nigga go so it is you performing arts high school in the nineties in georgia so it was not exactly the safest place for,
people to be out of the closet,
so like and thinking about high school mistakes but just thinking about all the gay boys that i made out with you like we were both sitting there being like this work and i just said and like we will be with. [8:14] Be there is trying to make something work and how about that’s gonna happen in the state of private practice that these things are trying so hard to lake make happen are going to work and. [8:24] Open collect what happens.
Then the mother of boys like you know that is so soft and i think in private practice we put all this energy into whatever like new blog post for example in that phase.
But it’s just not working and the idea of just scrapping the entire project.
Because it’s not going to be part of your brand identity like most people that phase i don’t think that they’re willing to scrap it.
Where is when you move along a little bit you realize this isn’t the caliber that i should be doing and it’s not.
Bad break up with that girl friend affect my life to be worse after around seven reading steve jobs biography recently.
And the amount of products that they like as i was about to ship that he said stop we have to restart something against any amount of money they lost on the front and,
like it’s amazing but then you see what the product became like the iphone right before it launched like two days before.
He realized the screen needed to go all the way to the edge and they just halted everything and started over,
and so it’s like i think that great businesses do this as well not just private practices and not just high schoolers. [9:39] Did i lose you guys. [9:46] He like everybody’s every year but suddenly i just couldn’t hear word like this is your third talking about steve jobs and then i stopped and it was silent,
and i might get story gel and we get off topic but you are talking high school oh well go have you turn your video off and will just jumping right there. [10:14] Hey or so,
playskool awkwardness maybe tech challenges in high school i remember it all came out of the us and you couldn’t erase it if you,
types the wrong thing and said something awkward suddenly the next line was already there and you can go back it was terrible south africa yeah,
who is it funny my my story of high school is,
quite the opposite for alice and i was not kissing boys i was being so good and playing so by the rules and just kind of trying to do everything by the book and just be the good girl and.
I think what it was was just my own way of trying to avoid risk,
and the thing is it was still vulnerable it didn’t take away feeling self conscious are feeling vulnerable i just have to make the same mistakes later and go through those stages later so i think even in practice you know sometimes people. [11:10] Circuit out the instruction manual thinking if i just you all these private practice steps correctly everything’s going to go smoothly and. [11:18] You still have to take those risks later on you start to fall on your face occasionally i think it’s often people wants to do it right the first time,
which is great it’s good to listen to podcasts its good to download peoples checklists good to read blogs all those things but.
Finding your own path is still gonna take some work it’s gonna take innovations it’s gonna take different versions.
I think it’s important just yeah process is being important of kind of where you’re gonna end of landing if we difficult landing cuz i don’t feel like even still i have landed.
Right yes the flyer hyatt yeah world is growing and we’re always taking risks you know i mean everybody story of how in some ways.
I think i already said this but it’s kind of just postponing the rest is just postponing whatever you’re trying to avoid also would you tell the story,
are you set,
i’ll sell it to tell.
Let’s put in our schedule a year from now we’re gonna have a treat your self day and so we did we went to this nice dinner and we had this waiter who is.
Really funny cute hang around alot definitely flirting with jane and so i was he left,
like he didn’t the very often except like guess things and then come back and hang out with us and so many left to go get food i was like city and what is the single woman doing her waiters funny can clearly play with their. [12:58] If there is a loss of feeling thirteen years old but no stop squirmed like a middle schooler truly was blessing and i was like well i guess you.
Right now and leave your number of and allison do that and when we left i was like.
I feel so self-conscious that i was like we can’t walk by the rest of the early walk around the block to get our cars because i was to scared to pass them again i’ve never felt so,
mill sc is out of helpful about middle school since middle school but the thing is.
I let allison do it because i was about to say no and i thought you know what i ask my clients in my coaching clients you might my counseling clients and telling them to take risks,
all the time god out of their comfort zone if it would be such a hypocrite if i didn’t seize this moment and take the risk so that.
Doing anything else that day,
but it’s not meant to be so but it was still I’m so glad I took the risk very good wingwoman. [14:15] Yes well separately but she is it’s that big risk for the idea of pushing yourself to do things that make you uncomfortable is really important in private practice the,
the more that you do something over and over over the fear,
just like leaves years so if i raise my rates in my private practice or raise my rates for consulting or i’m doing something new that scares the heck out of me.
The more than i do it the easier it gets you know like i just had a consulting client a pretence all thing interview where we talked and,
i don’t know if it was a good fit yeah i give the amount and she was surprised she must not read the website so it’s like okay well,
i’m okay with that would you for not if it were not instead of making loud cut my price in half just because someone pushes back on the price a little bit and it’s exactly,
in hopes to have wing woman are we man in the house and ii have really been supporting each other as business people as well as just as friends and,
in the same way that you kind of have your BFF you can call crying and high school when.
Joey doesn’t after the prom it sometimes you need that person to call in bounce things off of and or just say i’ve had such a hard day in so and so having a support system in place is really important,
when i think that’s probably part of the transition electric more of a college mindset.
In private practice were in high school you’re around people that you can have to be around and so maybe not maybe better people at the same mindset so for example both my parents worked for the school system both of my. [15:53] My in laws work for the school system so all four of like our parents,
we’re school system workers as they definitely had the like you work for somebody else and that was always my mindset,
insert for a long time i was surrounded by people that you were gonna take those risks to start their own private practice they were gonna do it,
i was just gonna handed this is the mindset but then as you start to grow up the way you view business as you start of different influences in your life.
What happens is you then certain who’s the crowd I want to run with like when you’re in college and you go to a whole bunch of the like different student groups and oh do I want to go to hear to hear they have a Fencing Club that might be interesting,
holly and i remember joe will open on facebook i think it was you posted a picture of yourself in college and i was like,
oh my god i totally would stay up till three in the morning playing together oh my son was here when i left handed leopard print hair i had drugs,
i am on the madonna can i change my hair so much just like one time it is set as new just to one half a year,
like really grow out,
yeah i was is what is funny in college i went to europe after my freshman year of college by myself for six weeks and just met people and traveled and air france white and straight on the way back,
and so this can bleach blonde curly afro hair in a tight i sure,
get upgraded to business class because everyone’s like. [17:27] Wasn’t like operating right then so American Airlines was like well let’s take care Frances money and give this kid business class so business is awesome. [17:39] Configure rock star that is where the heck mobiles yeah is.
It doesn’t play until like when you’re in like the college level of private practice like your me out on your own your starting to take some things a little bit more seriously you’re starting to know yourself and explore and.
Maybe you get a little self-righteous slaves i didn’t think it was possible to be a feminist and shave,
during the mycology is the user thief out the bike.
What you know now and i think that you can hit that place in private practice when your start to get a flow where you’re like yeah i’m doing a,
this is the way to do it and there are some rigidity sometimes bigger learning where to invest your time and energy incentives,
and money to install sometimes making mistakes with that. [18:33] Learning how to be more of a leader you know I mean you’re starting to see what needs to get done you’re learning where to invest your time and your energy your very much more in touch with your values and your,
if you’re why of what you’re doing and like you said yeah sometimes i can go a little,
pretty your self-righteous but it’s really exciting when you start says think about you know,
what’s really my purpose with this where do i really wanna go with us and,
feeling like college are also probably learning your limits with certain things so i like your setting some limits around how many people are gonna see in a day because you just take everyone who calls and like twelve thirty seven people in a week,
doesn’t feel about his every seven shots tonight probably expensive hospital bill gates,
we can be in the nineties we didn’t have a phone call me in,
so if so then,
so people can go through these phases and then at what point like where they go that i was keep calling hannah,
yeah there’s a fire say that this never,
graduate year is always a learning there’s like businesses ever-changing and ever evolving into maybe you’re doing any course later maybe,
we’re trying on multiple streams of income but there’s and there’s always something new to learn clinically and,
you know every time.
I’m sorry not every time you go to that next phase you’re still gonna suddenly go from feeling like a big fish to feeling like a small fish again and you’re gonna kinda. [20:06] Navigate through the pitfalls and you’re gonna it have to once again learn how to do imperfect action despite your fears so.
Absolutely we’re always praying and i think that when i was in school you know i did may you masters degrees and all that i get out okay sonoma counselor,
and this is what i can do and counselors usually only makes sixty thousand dollars or so years that’s pretty much metallic my mindset was,
i’m a counselor that’s all i can do but then at some point,
i realize week like if i just wanted to become like an insurance agent or do something totally different like i could do that too i don’t have to stick with the career that i went to school for.
And in the same is true in private practice where.
You can start with and get you okay traditional therapy men do that really well i’m learning but then to branch out,
and so will we is that really the only thing that i can give the world or should i do if he courses should i create something different should i,
create an event or conference around a certain topic that i have expertise in for me that light bulb moment was really important because i have a mental limit of how much i can make and really what jobs i could choose to do,
but then when i realize that the only limits with the limits that is set that’s when it was like everything exploded my business cuz the only kind of.
I just boundaries i had were obviously ethical and legal boundaries but it was no longer set by the career path i had gone to school for.
Right exactly and he thought that just popped into my head to you is that. [21:35] As you are growing as your constant if you’re constantly growing and pushing and we’re trying on new things,
i think it makes a better therapists you know if we get to this kind of comfortable limited space were like okay that’s it i’m just gonna,
keep on doing the same thing i’m not gonna try.
The process that our clients are going through where they’re taking risks for their getting out of their comfort zone you know I just think it adds Vibrance to the actual clinical work.
Absolutely not use your making widgets. [22:16] I would sue in the are like a sister if your sister from another mister,
awesome work but you can you get here for the fact,
retirement and i’m glad i’m here punch you in the arm that we have a problem.
Wasn’t so allison jean if every counselor in the world were listening right now what would you want them to know. [22:44] Allyson university on the first of the first shot to.
Me don’t security days ahead of me starting your business i’ll get it to keep it normal how we always do it. [23:02] I am,
so lick you can have what you want that’s what I want people to know you can have what you want and if you don’t have what you want right now it’s a matter of over looking at,
we are holding yourself back when you were talking about joe like you had this income limit in your own mind and what you release that all the sudden,
like sky’s the limit.
So make sure your building what you want instead of building the wrong practice,
and say you know i was thinking about this whole development all approach that.
We’re talking about and i really want concerts to know that starting a practice and running a practice does it isn’t just about,
during this business about who you become in the process just like yeah with all of these risks and pitfalls and awkward moments in your.
Growth stories we have from middle school and high school and college,
when you are starting your own business you are kind of stepping into a higher level of functioning and your having to grow into that and you become a more confident person and,
so i just really want you to be honoring the risks that you’re taking and honoring the growth.
That you’re having and just paying.
So i have some questions that i didn’t tell you guys gonna ask so i may wanna know what you guys love about asheville driving there once and went to couple restaurants but i know that i didn’t see like the locals. [24:42] What they love so tell me what you guys like about asheville all i don’t even know where to start.
I just love it so much you love what i love about asheville and i noticed this the minute i moved here fifteen years ago.
It’s kind of weird and we embrace our weirdness and what it in there a lot of kind of outdoorsy people but there’s also I mean we just joke about you know keep bashful weird and.
Really good people watching and what does it keeps people unpretentious men have ask it where all weird everyone’s got their weird thing but actually just more open about it so that’s what i love about nashville.
It’s a good answer yeah and i think it’s just it’s.
Beautiful like what I’m driving home everyday I’ve got these liquid nestled in the mountains and especially like in September when you’re going to be here. [25:38] Fall is gorgeous and it’s just this sense of like i’m so lucky to live in a beautiful place and the food is so good an appearance at,
and coffee so bad it’s so and the chocolate,
no wonder we get along like you just described Asheville is so similar to how I would describe Traverse City,
except the people watching it on a tourist so we are as weird as asheville on the surface but i think so we get along so well is that like we are drawn to places that like.
Place as well as the people just like.
Is part of your life it’s not just i’m here because there are jobs i’m here because of whatever like you’re choosing to be in asheville because,
that place has a certain like home to it that maybe other places have had for you lately,
well it’s so we started dreaming number of months ago about putting on an event together and we named it Brew your practice Jean were you the one that came up with that name,
i’d be willing mines look at one hundred,
if a trip on with the like brewing a cup of joe in the morning and salad ipa and grill practice and it’s awesome so i’m having it at a restaurant called rib to it and i’m like oh it’s be,
what you got oh such a dork my gosh yeah,
cool for the arms of the border we can they also have that they keep asking weird so so tell me a little bit about what you guys are excited about for brewer practice. [27:16] I’m excited about even the people who are coming already like the people we are we have signed up or in,
different stages of starting a practice which is so exciting to have,
fuck her new best picture established that wanted to really like hone in on creating more of what they want their practice and of folks who have group practices in site about.
Just the diversity and his coming. [27:42] It’s gonna be fun we all set the intention of like this being not just full of great content and really helping people create what they want the world but also fun.
And i think that that’s mean to like that obviously like it’ll in,
if each other things like that health employer color for spring and still missing then.
I’m just looking for the fun of it to will equal your first brainstorming like how do you want this conference to be different,
in other private practice conferences like that you can leaving things for us as we wanted to be like fine and obviously quality,
undefined and that we wanted to have it be like really simple in regards to how much work we put into it but so we can show up and just be ourselves,
the low tack and really individualised around the people that are gonna be there cuz like if most people if they were to pay for our individual consulting,
like it would be so much more to work with just one of us then it would be just a condo for your practice side pain that,
it’s such a cost-effective way for people that really advance their careers quickly so yeah half of the community which i love is to say and i’m so excited to actually,
have people there in person working on these things because,
it was all of the hour strategy working mindset work that we’re gonna be covering it you can read that stuff on-line i can talk to someone about it over the phone but there’s just something about being around other p,
people it just creates an energy in we are meeting to walk around with aaron blinders on and are and limiting stories and limiting beliefs and be. [29:23] Oh no the new jane. [29:27] They disappeared shear on living internet well bring your practice is going to be september twenty ninth and thirtieth,
two thousand and sixteen,
we would love to have you listeners come and hangout with us with jane and allison and myself down in asheville north carolina.
You can get tickets over at privateofthepractice.com/brew again that’s privateofthepractice.com/brew,
and we’re going to have all the information they can get tickets or you can email any of us through our website if you have any questions to see if your fit,
how to thank you so much Jane and Allison for being on the practice of the practice podcast and thank you for letting us into your ears and into your brain have an awesome week. [30:16] Things to be so bad that the,
record it ghosting us i thought i was like what i said wasn’t. [30:33] Music. [30:42] Plan over to practice of the practice comport session 151 and will have links to all of those things we talked about today,
answer since the day in silence is sexy and boogie belly you guys rock music in this podcast is designed it acted forget information,
in regards to the subject matter covered is going to understand you host or the publisher to accounting for clinical information.
Professional keep smiling come to asheville. [31:12] Music.