PoP 167 | Adding Insurance and Talking to Doctors with Alison Pidgeon

Private Practice insurance

Today we’re talking about insurance and talking to doctors with Alison Pidgeon. She runs through her experiences going into Private Practice.

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In This Podcast:

Listen to Alison’s first podcast on PoP here.

Click on the titles below to read Alison’s three-part blog series on insurance for your Private Practice:

CLICK HERE to take our 5-Day Course on how to add insurance to your Private Practice.

  •  DAY 1: Pros and cons of having insurance as part of your counseling private practice.
  •  DAY 2: How to get credentialed with insurance companies.
  •  DAY 3: What to do when you get your first client that wants to bill insurance.
  •  DAY 4: Billing insurance claims and how to save $10,090.09.
  •  DAY 5: How to read an EOB (Explaination of Benefits) and how to get paid.

Move Forward Counseling: www.moveforwardlancaster.com


Meet Alison Pidgeon

unnamedAlison is a licensed professional counselor in the state of Pennsylvania. In 18 months she went from starting a solo private practice to building a insurance-based group practice. She now employs 3 clinicians and a virtual assistant. In her spare time she is often seen running after her two small children and her therapy is cooking.



Meet Joe Sanok

consultant headshot JoeJoe Sanok, MA, LLP, LPC, NCC is one of the world’s leading private practice consultants. He is the owner of the Traverse City counseling practice, Mental Wellness Counseling. Joe helps counselors to start private practices and grow them.



Podcast Transcription

Pop 167 | Adding Insurance And Talking To Doctors With Alison Pidgeon

[0:00] Music.

[0:24] We are talking about putting yourself out there and you know it’s really snowy interesting because.
Remember my internship now is my practice supervisor brady harnish baker dr brady harnish bigger.

[0:43] He was one of my favorite professors and all of graduate school and he really just filled in during the practically at the very and they are on the other side of that one we me your.
And i put myself out there and i invited him to come to a concert i was playing cuz they also played music and a new fuse and music.
And he actually came to this concert and it was probably one of the best concerts.
I never played because we pack this place out i was in two of the vans and.
But when i was moving back to kalamazoo several years later after leaving to go to michigan’s upper peninsula.

[1:25] It was it was like there’s another time i put myself out there and reach out to him and we went and we got burritos,
and we’re talking about private practice and he had a private practice that was aimed at men it was the first,
can a person really my head and mitch private practice and ask him if he would introduce me to the guy that was the owner of the group that he used to work for.
And he said he introduced me to dr larry beer who was the first person to invite me to do you a private practice with them that wasn’t an agency.

[1:58] This is the first time had taste of what it was like to work in a private practice.

[2:02] And i think about how many of my consulting clients or friends just have a hard time putting themselves out there.
And i know for some people it comes more naturally and for other people it doesn’t thinking about what i would have lost by not.
Putting myself out there today and the show we’re gonna talk about putting yourself out there and allyson pigeon who’s on the show today,
and she came to clean and practice here in traverse city you can watch a video over practiceofthepractice.com/pinot.

[2:38] While she was here she put herself out there she asked me if i would be interested in potentially bringing her on the show answer bring her and two packs of practice as a contractual consultant.
And sweet we’ve talked about that we’ve looked at whether might be something and sir testing that out a little bit.
But i’m going to start with the story because i feel like there are times you really gotta just push through your comfort zone and put yourself out there.
And today our sponsor it’s brightervision.com/joe they help you put yourself out there as well to help you your website look beautiful it costs thousands of dollars is just fifteen bucks a month.
And the events such a huge supporter of practice of the practice and all the work that i do and all the work that you do.
On the beautiful websites to make them quickly they optimized for as ceo and you get tech support just fifty bucks a month so head on over to brightervision.com/joe and you can get a deal there.

[3:38] No else is gonna talk about putting yourself out there but growing a group practice about reaching out to doctors and a few other surprises.

[3:47] Music.

[3:55] Have allison kitchen on the tracks the practice podcast in two thousand fifteen she was burned she had a job as the director of an outpatient community mental health clinic,
and to me and long hours working really late and responsibilities that just kept piling up,
and six weeks after deciding she had enough she launched her private practice and it wasn’t easy but we actually worked together as in a consulting relationship.
And she’s and clinicians and now has a group practice that also has insurance as part of that model also allison has been on the practice the practice podcast back in session one ten welcome back allison.
Thank you so much for having me back yeah this is awesome you know i’ve been saying that can intro but you also came to pinot and practice we would stand up paddle boarding together and,
it was so fun to get to know you in person over a couple of days to you and just have fun with peter and practice,
yeah fucking truck is awesome i had such a good time like i’m just dreaming like what’s it gonna look like next year how can i make it more fun for people to come back in new people to come so.
Yeah there’s some things here in traverse city that we can do that would be awesome so yeah sweet well i wanted to just concert those that haven’t heard the previous podcast just a.
Can a little bit about your kind words and story tell us when you’re burned out of this community clinic and you larger private practice and then maybe i ask a couple of questions from there.
Yeah i really you know jumped in a prior practice really quickly like i say and i kinda within,
you know six weeks of giving my notice and making that decision started private practice and i am looking back on it now i wish i had to get a little bit more time to set things up.

[5:34] But that this was the circumstances of my life at the time and obviously it’s worked out pretty well so um no would you use it if you’re can we do that,
if you were to invite someone how would you advise them differently then maybe how you did,
yeah i mean i know a lot of people you know keep your full-time job inserted,
start the practice as a side hustle and try to build up,
awareness and the marketing and branding and get more clients and then when he yelled reach a certain threshold they feel comfortable leaving a,
full-time job and is doing private practice i mean i think if you can do that that’s a great way of going about it,
with my situation just with having two very young children at home that wasn’t real.
Yeah you’re going to work nights and weekends with little kids at,
yeah tell me about i did do that and that that’s tough but so in regards to like,
your income was it that your family is fully rely on it did you have two incomes are some savings that made that use your where you like there’s no income coming in and six weeks.
Yeah so,
fortunately we have nice little nest egg of savings to fall back on i think that’s what really gave me the courage to make the leap and sore and jump in with both feet because i knew like okay we’ll still be able to like pay the bills it now not that.
It wouldn’t be hard but just that like you know we still be able to like,
yeah buy groceries and we will be if it will be in dire straits speak so that mean it easier to have that safety net when i think that something that a lot of people mess is just the importance of living below your means like.

[7:18] Just overtime can’t have that safety net cuz i think about two thousand nine when my wife and i decided to move from kalamazoo up to our home town of traverse city.
And i had no job plan i was like five to work at a coffee shop that’s great but she was going to be doing her internship for occupational therapy.
And we knew that was very little and long-term so she need to make those kind of connections and we had saved up enough that we figured out that we can live for nine months.
Is long as a quick continue living in her parent’s basement for that time so he was like the movie with my in-laws like you know i’m into my career at this point and but we had enough that like,
we could continue paying on student loans will it continue like paying for stuff and we can make those kinda risky jobs because it has been calculated we had set aside that money and so i love hearing that you guys did that even though,
maybe it wasn’t the plan so why you say that you just had the savings because you live below your means rate.
So is halved and when you start adding people to your practice.
So about six months and i decided to hire a contractor and fortunately it was someone who was an ex.
Looking for like a full-time job she wasn’t necessarily relying on working for me to pay her bills she was just sort of looking at it as like a stepping stone to get into the Private Practice Sol,
it seemed kind of low risk to can.
And then your first year if i remember correctly you’re making around thirty thousand dollars or so with that about right yes.

[8:55] Yes i think i think we’re actually in pain myself was around the poverty level but you know for a new business and for a new practice like to turn that much of a profit in that first year.
I think it’s pretty good.
Especially that was like and as a side gig than you like amped up it was like brand new right so why do you think that you were able to hit that thirty thousand dollar mark the first year like what were some of the habitats in your first year.
I mean certainly learned a ton about marketing and what works and what doesn’t work with that and i think to united take a small case for a client with me when i left the agency so that definitely helped.
And having a contractor in the first six months do i mean obviously she’s bringing in income as well so.
They said marking it works and doesn’t work for people that don’t know what works and doesn’t work what for you or some good marketing tactics,
definitely not working and one thing that i learned,
somewhat recently was how to get my foot in the door at these doctors offices and I finally feel like I crack,
the code and i miss your code what’s the code oh okay it’s a long explanation that’s okay we got time so.
I have a friend who for many years worked as a pharmaceutical rep and so she sort of told me,
the process of what to do so she said go to the office unannounced and show up with some kind of literature brochures whatever you have.

[10:32] And say hey i’m you know new driver in prayer practice.
You know i want to drop off this information in case you know the doctors would be interested in having other place to refer to.
And then asking to the person is it makes the referrals are is the office manager and sometimes those are two different people and has a one in the same actually like writing down that person’s name,

[11:04] Typical i’m clinicians i now have said will be for blowing ya you know i don’t,
get a good response from yahoo’s ever sitting at the front desk,
so can i get the cold shoulder but then when i did is two weeks later i call office and ask for that referral person that office manager and say.
You know hey can i speak to soon so and i got them on the phone i would say i was in a couple of weeks ago i dropped off my literature did it happen to cross your desk.
So about fifteen min the tire had fifty plus the others i haven’t.
But then that’s what gave me that when the door just don’t have a conversation with them and ask them a couple of key questions like.
I know you have trouble finding places to refer your patients to for mental health counseling what is the biggest me you see in your population of patients as it comes to mental healthcare,
and sometimes i get an answer like we really struggle with finding places to send our medical aid clients do and then the sign.
For me like okay this isn’t a referral i wanna continue to nurture because i don’t take medical aid clients your,
sometimes i hear like oh yeah we always have trouble getting people in for therapy because everybody’s full or whatever assist situation is.
So then i knew like okay it sounds like they’re interested and i will continue to nurture that referral so.

[12:40] I hear a lot from doctors is that they make referrals and then they have no idea what happens like does the client fell through do they not,
and made for them getting some sort of feedback from the clinician is like what makes or breaks that relationship,
yes that’s the thing i heard over and over from the doctors so when it doing was i would say like do you think it’s important that the providers actually need me and four of.
See how you know who i am and what my style is on that has stopped.
And a lot of times a day so what i did was the same thing the drug reps do i would like to buy them lunch and bring it in and then.
You know the doctor to come down and they would chat with me and the referral personally come down and jeremy and all that kind of stuff so that’s what i heard over and over from the doctors like.
They are expected now to prescribe these a getting medications because there’s such a shortage of psychiatrists they have to make a decision in ten minutes what,
kinda medication but the station on and they want like something else to go on you know like they wanna hear from us asparagus like,
what is this person diagnosis are like what are the complicating factors that you think like their depressions getting better or you know these types of things and so,
that’s something i was really.

[13:59] Sure to ask about like how do you want me to communicate with you what kind of things you want and that letter or that backs for that phone call you know like who do you want that letter sent to cuz every practice runs a little bit different me.
And so i made sure to ask about those details because i want.
To communicate that this is important to me that we communicate and i want to make sure that we’re collaborating in the most efficient way for the good of our mutual patient.

[14:28] Yeah so so as you have those meetings.
Did you start off wanting to take insurance or did you start thinking private pay it or do you add insurance can as you went.
Yes you know what’s funny about all you coming from community as a whole i just assumed like oh i have to get on all these on insurance panels i can you feel me back just how you do.
I didn’t think anything different and so then as i learn more about private practice and i realize like oh no there’s no practice is there also pay and i kinda blew my mind so what i had done my left.
We at the house i just transfer all my credentials over to the new address.
So i can quit if you insurance panels and now as i have gotten to know your happen to it now i see like oh that wasn’t good investment,
i leave for me the other insurance is the occasional transfer that one over oh yeah how do you realize which ones like if you were to start eliminating or c could rivers,
how would you analyze which ones to transfer which ones not to.
Yeah i think what you need to focus on is what insurances pay the best and also which insurance is and kinda give me the least amount of hassle.
I want the least amount of us were micromanagement on there and.
You know there such a broad range of reimbursement rates like the lowest insurance panel is like.

[16:01] Thirty dollars last then my highest insurance panel and so it makes a big difference if i get off that we were paying insurance panel.
And hopefully fill it with more folks on the higher you thirty bucks an hour lots of.

[16:17] Definitely i would have not steered clear of the lower paying insurance is to actually also happen to be.

[16:24] The most powerful ministry totally just the most likes him he know you’re leaving see a major about bike to go launcher on venture and like.
Would you sit down there counting back i need to know these numbers and how big of a hassle though like i would guess they be like you’re not stealing a bunch of our clients telling me the information like.
How much of that you think someone could get in obviously ethical way before they were leaving agency job how much that would have to have trial and error after they leave.

[16:54] I think i could have done it over i would have talked to other,
airbus and have a practice like as i was doing those kind networking meetings i was kinda work into that pay what insurance do you take now are pretty easy do whether they a pain in your butt you know that,
yeah and i think that would help me a lot that that’s better than sitting on the account this image of,
that’s why I’m interviewing you and you’re not interviewing me cuz I would give really bad advice on taking insurance so then,
so you have your packs open for about eighteen months like you did thirty thousand last year when you on track for this year if you don’t mind sharing that.
Yeah so actually.

[17:38] We might accounting estimate is that i’ll get about a hundred twenty thousand a year that’s crazy quadruple.
Four hundred percent increase in the year you keep that up for next year to yeah yes haven’t really and it,
that’s awesome so talk a little bit about the decision to have insurance be apart of your practice cuz I know a ton of my listeners and myself included are just private-pay,
but there are a bunch of people that even my consulting clients that say i’d like to have this one insurance i know they pay really well if he really fast like how do i do it.
Take us through it the decision to take insurance away from the pros and cons of the maybe some of.
And the language like to be is and that crazy stuff like that all that we don’t know.
Yeah i think some of the pros and cons of or sticking insurance a pro would be you get referrals from insurance company so there may be helping to do some your marketing for you.
Obviously it becomes a lot easier for people to afford their pc they open yourself up to a wider population of people.
And i think no insurance and taking insurance and billing it’s can be a steep learning curve but i feel like once you get the hang of it it’s like.
Now it’s like no big deal like i click a couple of buttons and like it sends a claim with the insurance company and i get paid now,
and i think once you sort of set up a system for yourself answer to figure out all the lingo everything like you talking about it it is really doable.

[19:14] So like when you do a 45 minute session how much time do you spend on billing Insurance authorizations all that for your typical clay.
So insurance companies for the most part have done without authorization slick i don’t have any insurance plans that require them at this point.
Animals as far as the billing goes the.
You know probably the most time-consuming part is like when a new client comes just like including your information into our system which maybe takes a few minutes but surely doing that once that once i.
You know do my session.

[19:59] Literally takes ten seconds to click a couple of buttons and send to clean electronically what system do you use for your claims.

[20:06] So i use and he charcoal baroness and i know there are lots of different ones that just the one i happened to choose and i think they’re all pretty solar.

[20:19] Sweet so so then someone decides i want to take you one insurance i have heard good things about what their next step after they said sure i’ll take.
Blue cross for example or at now i’m gonna be on that panel.
How do i get on the handle like what are their steps to start can i go from yeah i’ll do it to getting the first plane.
So the first thing you need to do is set up your profile and c aq each which is like a.
Kind of a clearing house for all the major insurance companies to go on and get information about you so essentially your setting up a really big profile about yourself like.
Resume your and pin number like it’s pretty rank be.
Application but once you fill it out then you have to do is updated periodically so after the initial kind of.

[21:12] Yeah period time it takes to fill it out it’s not too much too time consuming to meeting it.
Then from there what you wanna do is.

[21:23] Call the provider relations officer that insurance company and why you’re calling and be on your computer cuz they will direct you to where the application is online,
and then you just fill out the application in there some documents that you’re gonna need to book for the cat which and also for,
find any insurance company so you’ll need to know you’re in pie number you’ll need a résumé you might need a copy of your diploma.
You need a copy of your mouth practice insurance by scanning all those and put it all in like one folder on your computer for easy access would it be smart to save time.
Yes because of your applying to like five different companies are all gonna let that seen stuff to.

[22:07] So then you put in an application with the insurance companies you want to work with and then we’ll how longs it take after that to get approved so really that.
I assume it depends on insurance company and it also depends on if you already.
Are credential them in your disorders maybe you know leaving like the community mental health clinic and you’re going into private practice.
That is a much quicker process as opposed to your starting from scratch he never incremental before.

[22:37] So it could be as short as a few weeks it could be as long as one insurance company to eight months differential me holy cow,
so don’t get to excited when chaplin and now it say the depart applying to grad school,
yeah well okay so then yes you get your acceptance letter from blue cross at now magellan whoever in and then what happens.

[23:06] So this is kind of funny parts and insurance companies some of them will send you letter saying you been accepted but.

[23:15] You can’t sort of go out and start seeing those clients and billing right away it’s like you get yeah you’re accepted but we still have to go put in your information in the computer and you have to wait till you get this other letter.
So like,
make sure your me.
No you’re not really you have to wait another two weeks or whatever took your like put in the computer so,
yeah it’s pretty quick once you get the first acceptance letter like it’s just a couple of weeks usually or is it potentially more months and months after that,
my experiences been just a couple of weeks ago just like making sure the system has all your info in it.

[24:05] Then when you’re officially in the system then how do you starting your first clients so i honestly then you wanna.
Amortize that you taking that insurance and also make sure that you ask the insurance company to add you to their directory they’re not that great at,
been up with updating directories and also like adding you i don’t know how often they do that were the latest,
add people as they apply but i would make sure to ask about like he is my information on the directory so if your advertising.
Yourself as he it will cross.
Hopefully you’ll start getting those clients I know through like Psychology today if you say like I take Blue Cross people are able to search by their insurance.
Hey so when he’s their insurance they could filter out everybody that doesn’t take their insurance and then just see the matches of books and you take care insurance okay.
Gotcha so even your psychology today profile like that is having some different ways that people find you.
Great so what are some of the common terms that like clinicians need to know as their cover trying to take the first client like.
Deductible like co insurance all those certain things check yeah i think this is.
One of the things that makes insurance so intimidating because they have all these terms and it makes it seem so complicated butt.
Make it down a little bit to make a little bit simpler to understand typically people usually either have a co-pay type plan or a deductible type plan so deductible means that you know maybe the insurance company says to pay.

[25:49] Three thousand dollars out of pocket before we start covering any of your medical or mental health services,
so what’s gonna happen when you see that client is that looks a.
I am just making up whenever you’re reimbursement rate without insurance companies ninety dollars so they’re gonna pay that ninety dollars every time they come in until we meet there deductible so the clients can pay that.
The clients going to be so how do you figure out that it’s $90 so when you sign your contract with the insurance company.
They attach a fee schedule and you’ll be able to look okay I’m with I’m feeling this 90837 code this is the reimbursement rate.
That like will certain plans within that have different rates or is it like all blue cross always put pays the same amount in your state.

[26:40] Yeah not exactly sure they do a bystander by region but i think yeah.

[26:47] That’s pretty typical like everybody in unless you ask for a raise your all getting at the cinema.
Yo i wanna ask later like how you ask insurance company for reese i think that’s important question,
okay but so see you find out that they reimburse and ninety box then someone has a three thousand dollar deductible safe to pay the name,
that at some point the client says I hit my deductible you somehow confirm that assume.
Yes when you get the up the expiration benefit for back from the insurance company a lot and you’ll see like some weird amount like.
Part of the session be covered in prayer that long and it’s like that’s the red flag like oh they just met their deductible gotcha so of cleo seventeen dollars and twelve cents.
Rate as opposed to ninety and that’s the sort of hiding like okay okay.
I’m now are there times when that hits that you either overpay or under charge the client and you like crap I got to go back and change it.

[27:48] Who is we consider wheel is aaron excited collecting sure upright and then it we have to refund the clients we do that pretty often.

[27:59] So then you can get this flow and then like what like in reverse can become maintenance phase your submitting your benefits.
Is it worth using a billing company it sounds like you just kind of click if you things.

[28:14] A billing company they know they charge like on average seven percent for a clean and i mean you know it’s a few dollars that adds up pretty quickly.
Yeah i could be several hundred dollars a month and i just think now with the technology we have with electronic health records like it doesn’t make sense to pay a bill or they.
Once you have it this system set up it just doesn’t oreo.
Yeah I was it was you and I are a kind of putting together this email course we’ll talk about in a little bit and I ran the numbers can a with you.
On how long it takes you to click and how much it would cost you like per hour if to pay someone to do all those clicks and I think it was like $10,000 an hour.
Date you end up making been kind of the amount of time that you just clicking if it’s like twelve seconds and it would cost you nine bucks or whatever.
Set scene having somebody walk you through how to set up that whole system would be a better use of your time than to pay a bill or.
Oh yeah that’s okay.
So they gonna clicking along there’s not much really maintenance other than can keep track of your clients what do people mystery in that i can a phase of maintenance phase.
I think one of the things that we run into is that people insurances change and they don’t necessarily think to tell you,
especially like,
a natural time that we tend to think about that is January one cuz lots of people’s insurance is change then but Peoples Insurance also changes during the year.

[29:48] Am i missing like this month is the last month that on my cobra insurance from working at the community college and se next month we’re switching to a new plan and.
Just found out because i was in a group plan my gigantic deductible that we had already this year does not transfer over so that’s like this better stay well for the last four months.

[30:10] So yeah i have happens answer quite often for people that insurance changes or job changes things like that.
Yeah so then you might be just going along you know submitting the same claim with the same I need number and then all the sudden they’re getting rejected and your like wait a second like what’s the problem he’s claims are all getting paid before.
And so then i would be another sign you know if you can figure that out from looking at you be to go back to the client say insurance change for my doctor actually they require you to bring your insurance card every single time and your id.
Just cuz i think people’s insurance changes so much that they just and from every single time right now so if so then.
Can of adding clinicians so you add questions your practice what do you need to know niggers to getting them on to insurance is it just have the same processor,
is it easier once you’re kind of label that’s either a group or guardian of the insurance yourself.
Yeah so i had a really tradition myself as individual cuz i was just in a solo practice and then,
i decided to become a group of iranian to myself and then went back to the insurance companies and established like a group,
i mean and number on back is stuck so once i start adding contractors it was actually easier to be a group,
and have them on and it really depends on how the insurance wants to credential use some insurances will only credential you as an individual.
And others will print you as a group so if your able to credentials a group i would say that’s probably easier as far as the whole process of adding people.

[31:48] So someone thinking that eventually they want to be a group even if right now they’re not would be better to start as signing up as a group and then.
Having people vs like how you did it where was selling the new switch doesn’t really matter.
I’m not sure how much it matters.

[32:07] Yeah i’m not sure how much it matters to.

[32:10] Well it’s really cool cuz you’ve written three blog posts for practice and the practice that are kinda going live in the coming weeks here and will have links to those in the show notes and,
I was so impressed with the 5-day email course you put together for practice of the practice do you want to maybe talk about kind of some of those.
Things that you’re covering so going into it just have the topics of each of those e-mails yeah i.
Welcome with the ad on my like,
if i was starting out of our starting over again like what would i want to know about the whole process order from beginning to end and,
how i wish it would have like walked me through it because in the beginning i was sort of just doing it myself and i need a ton of mistakes and obviously make mistakes with billing insurance you’re not getting paid your.
You know it’s been lots of time on the phone with insurance companies so.
I just wanted to sort of go over like all the things that i wish i would have known going into it and also like sorta the potential pitfalls and how to avoid,
yeah making lots of mistakes were you don’t that can pay that kind of thing totally.
When it’s so cool cuz we can walk you through it more in-depth a lot of the things we talked about like.
How do you were the pros and cons of taking insurance what are some of the terms you have to know like when you get your first clients make sure you ask all these questions that’s,
it’s step by step can exactly what to do and,
if three five day email course you guys can go sign up at practiceofthepractice.com/insurance again that’s practiceofthepractice.com/insurance and if your out.

[33:48] Running walking driving right now and didn’t catch that you can always heater so notes over practice of the practice just click on podcasts.
So there’s free five day course and also you’re gonna be doing some consulting through practice of the.
Insurance maybe talk a little bit about when you work with people about insurance what are some things you guys cover in the first couple sessions.
Yes thank you i’m really excited about doing the first ever like other than me consulting with practice of the practice,
yeah i’m super excited because i just love the business and running the practice and.
Do i think,
that i would love to help other people you know gross enough practice and if that means taking insurance then you know certainly that something anybody can learn and,
i would love to you know help walk people through it i think there so many little details and caveats about insurance that you want to learn it.
You’re good to go but it just that learning curve can be so Steep and so I really want to help people get a handle on that so they feel confident billing insurance and they get paid.
Yeah i could but even if you just to teach someone how to build their own insurance so that with just a couple clicks vs.
Yeah i have a billing company do and take seven percent of all of your profits like that’s a huge value in cell am so that the only way to get the invites to do a free consulting phone call with allison.

[35:21] Just cuz if you guys are fit is you have to join that free five day email course and so lucky to as first five days can make sure that you’re really interested in taking insurance and then true that you get a link to schedule a time with allison.
And go from there so.
Allison if there if counselors in the world is the screen of my final question seven billion have very counselor in the world were listening right now what would you want to know.

[35:46] I was wanting to know that.
Private practice is something that is totally doable for lots of therapists and.
Now taking insurance isn’t as scary as it seems and we can definitely work through it together so that you feel comfortable.
I’m taking insurance and you can build a thriving practice.
That’s so awesome to allison pigeon who is from move forward for counseling moveforwardlancaster.com is her website leveling so that in the show notes she went from thirty grand her first year to she’s gonna hit over hundred twenty grand this year.
And she’s teaching people how to add insurance to practice allison thanks so much for being in the practice of the practice podcast thank you joe.

[36:30] Music.

[36:39] To get out there put yourself out there i was just talking to one of my consulting clients and.
She was changed me about can insecurities about reaching out to get new clients to doctors pastors other people.
And we all have those feelings those are normal feelings we don’t want to feel like we’re just using people.
The one thing that i’ve been really thinking about lately is how we have to think of failure as math.
That if you send a hundred e-mails and you know you get ten responses and of those ten responses one person get coffee with you.
It’s a one percent conversion so if that one person every time will send you a referral.
Can you know that you want more referrals you gotta send more e-mails you got it increase those open rates you got increases coffee dates you’ve got to just work the math.
And realize there’s always gonna be people that say it’s not a good fit because they’re too busy they are opening the e-mails on the don’t wanna work,
new people and that’s okay it’s not personal so put yourself out there are else and give me some great tips today.
Also her insurance course is at practice of the practice for insurance and we really really want to.
Brightervision.com/joe for being a sponsor today you guys rock.
Awesome and next week we’re gonna have matthew turner who interviewed hundred sixty seven entrepreneurs that are to have failed and he’s gonna be giving away and awesome resource in fact he’s gonna be giving away his.

[38:13] So tune in next week for that and thanks for letting us in two years inch of rain have a great.

[38:18] Music.

[38:26] Perk information regarding the subject matter covered is giving him changing the host culture what is running the accounting clerk or other professional,
question if you actually find one thanks but also thanks for the incense sexy the intro is awesome.

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