[ALISON PIDGEON]
You are listening to the Grow a Group Practice podcast. Whether you were thinking about starting a group practice or in the beginning stages, or want to learn how to scale up your already existing group practice, you are in the right place. I’m Alison Pidgeon, your host, a serial entrepreneur with four businesses, one of which is a large group practice that I started in 2015. Each week, I feature a guest or topic that is relevant to group practice owners. Let’s get started.

Hello and welcome. I’m Alison Pidgeon your host. I got some feedback from some of you that you really like hearing stories about other practice owners and their journey to start a group practice. So that is the interview I have for you today. I am interviewing Jason Drake, who is a licensed clinical social worker, and he started a part-time private practice in January of 2020, while he was still working full-time in an agency. He thought that he might open a group practice five years from now, but after 10 months and through the process of working with me through consulting and figuring out how to launch his group practice, he did that in just 10 months. So he opened Katy Teen & Family Counseling, and then he was able to transit full time to his group practice in February of 2021. Jason is one of those people who just, he learned the steps and he just hit the ground running and made it happen. That’s why he was able to do it in a pretty short amount of time. So I hope that you can learn some things from Jason and his story.

If you are interested in starting your own group practice this year, we have a great opportunity for you through our Group Practice Launch program. This is very similar to the consulting that Jason did with me. We take you step by step through the process of starting a group practice. There’s videos, there’s handouts, there’s paperwork, there’s weekly meetings where you can ask Whitney Owens and I questions live so that you get the support you need to get the group practice off the ground. So if you’re interested in learning more about that, we’re going to be doing a free webinar and we’re calling it how to make bank by starting a group practice. You can register for that at practiceofthepractice.com/bank [B-A-N-K].

Then we’re going to be launching Group Practice Launch. We only do it twice a year. So this is our first cohort of 2022. It’s going to be launching the week of March 7th through the 10th. So if you register for the webinar, you will get on the email list and see when the doors open, so to speak. We usually do an early bird the first couple days. So if you want to get a reduced price definitely try to register in the first couple days. Again, that’s practiceofthepractice.com/bank to attend the free webinar and also get on our interest list for Group Practice Launch.
[ALISON]
I hope you enjoy this interview with Jason Drake, from Katy Teen & Family Counseling. Hi, Jason, welcome to the podcast.
[JASON DRAKE]
Hey, thank you. It’s a privilege to be on the podcast. Thank you so much.
[ALISON]
It’s great to talk with you today. So can you introduce yourself and your practice?
[JASON]
My name is Jason Drake. I’m a licensed clinical social worker, supervisor. I’m board certified at neurofeedback, certified brain health professional through the aiming clinic and trained in EMDR, which I absolutely love. I’m the owner and lead clinician of Katy Teen & Family Counseling. It’s a group practice located in Katy, Texas, which is just west of Houston, just right side of, right outside of Houston. We specialize in providing therapy, counseling services to teens, young adults and families. That’s our primary specialty, but then we have therapists who also, like I do neurofeedback. We have a therapist that runs on the autism spectrum, couples counseling, therapists who enjoy working with women’s issues. Our main niche is teen, adults and other sub specialties as well.
[ALISON]
Very nice. You’re all self-pay, correct?
[JASON]
We’re all self-pay, private pay.
[ALISON]
Very nice.
[JASON]
Which most therapists in the area are, probably about 80, 85% are.
[ALISON]
Living the dream, right?
[JASON]
Yes, yes, absolutely.
[ALISON]
So it wasn’t too long ago that you didn’t have a group practice. So what made you decide to start one?
[JASON]
It’s been an interesting journey that started off with reluctance. So in 2019 October, November, I was regional executive director for a large foster care agency in Texas, a great agency, really good leadership support. I loved it. I was overseeing three residential treatment centers. So I was busy. Like anybody who’s worked residentials 24/7, you work long hours. I had an executive director, a good friend of mine approach me and say, “Hey, James, you should try private practice. I think you’d like it. I think you’d be good at it.” I think I looked at her like, you must be crazy. “You know how many hours a week I work? How am I going to fit this in?” She said, “Just see two or three clients. If you don’t like it, you don’t need to keep doing it but I think you’ll like it.”

So in January of 2020, I opened my little part-time private practice and I saw two or three clients and I loved it. It just right off the bat felt like it was a hand glove fit. It just felt like this is finally where, what I was meant to do. I just thoroughly enjoyed it. So couple months after that, I talked to my wife like, “Hey, what about a five-year plan of opening a group practice?” Of course she’s a little bit nervous about that, but it was five years off. So she’s probably okay with that at that point. But in May and June, around that area, I was getting a high call volume. I was referring a lot of clients out to other practices. Then in June, I think it was June, May, June I did some consulting with Jessica and her group and my call volume just started to skyrocket, the intakes I was referring away.

So it just made sense to open the group practice in October of 2020. Our five year plan transitioned into a 10 month plan. I hired my first therapist in October, a year later, a little over a year later, we’ve moved into a larger space, doubled our office space where we’ve gone from four offices to eight offices. I have a full-time therapist, two part-time therapists, one intern therapist, and an admin assistant. Thank you very much, Alison because that was your feedback and was very timely and very important, very helpful.

Then we have two people subleasing, one of the office spaces. So we have 70 plus years of combined experience in working with teens, young adults and families. The reluctant start has really just turned out to be, I mean it’s living the dream. I really enjoy it. I transitioned full time from 13 years of residential treatment work to full-time group practice work in February of this year. I get asked from family was it worth it? I’m like absolutely, 110%.
[ALISON]
That’s amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your story and how quickly it all happened. What helped you to decide that it was time to leave your full time job, because I think that’s something a lot of people struggle with.
[JASON]
So I think once I started working private, I loved residential treatment. I had a really good team, really good leadership. It was a great organization. We did some really, really good things in the residential treatment world here in Texas. But once I started working private practice, I now had a comparison of like, I love residential, but I love private practice. So it just started to slowly transition to that direction I think because I was, I hadn’t done private practice before. I listened to a ton of private practice podcasts and we’re fortunate today to have a lot of that information out there today to be able to help us.

I know when Joe Sanok started, he was like, nothing was out there. He was the first one and now there’s a lot of podcasts. So I really became a podcast junkie at that point. I started listening to him on regular speed and then I’m like, I need more, so one and a half speed and then I need more. So I ended double speed just listening to him all the time. Because I was a blank slate, it was really helpful to be able to take all that information and apply it. So I think I started off on good groundwork, good footing. Then the more I started working private practice, the more I enjoyed it, I loved it and just saw a transition away from the agency work which was a little bit scary, but I’m not risk averse. My wife is a little bit more so that way, but it’s something that I felt confident that with all the support out there, group practice consulting, SEO consulting, all the podcast, if this is something I could do. It was how that transitioned.
[ALISON]
Nice. So was there like a certain income threshold that you met where you felt comfortable leaving your fulltime job?
[JASON]
Yes. Well, leaving the full-time job I was making the same amount in the group practice that I was making in the full-time job. So that was a good starting place. We didn’t start where we’re decreasing our income. We wanted to start where we’re at least meeting it and so we were able my therapist well, because I think our profession tends to devalue maybe a little bit of who we are, what we provide. We provide lifesaving work in some cases. It’s intergenerational. So I want to pay them for that worth while at the same time being to maintain my standard of living. So yes, we moved over and felt fairly confident that we would be able to maintain our current standard of living and then just improve from that.
[ALISON]
Then when you knew you wanted to start the group practice and you were getting all this information from podcasts and everything else, what were some of your first steps?
[JASON]
I just started. I had somebody who was doing it before, so she gave me some beginning steps. One of the first steps was, when starting private practice, I had subleased from them. So I learned about subleasing and how to go about doing that. Then really the first step was listening to all these podcasts. I think it gave me the conference, the knowledge to be able to lean into the discomfort, lean into the uncertainty a little bit and just start. So I knew that my major first step was I knew my website for private practice is my marketing. So I spent the money to be able to get some, did the 12 week intensive SEO training with Simplified SEO Consulting to learn how to do my SEO and to develop the website.

That was huge. That was money well spent because that’s really where we started to take off. Then group practice consulting with you and your group, your team was very helpful in that process as well. So those are some of the major, first steps I took, but I think really the first step for me was there’s some uncertainty about private practice. There’s uncertainty about group practice. Like what’s the market going to do? Or am I going to be able to sustain this? Am I going to be able to get enough clients to be able to sustain the livelihood of the therapists that work for me? So I think just leaning into that uncertainty, knowing that we probably have more answers than we’re aware of and if we don’t, there’s a lot more out there that can help us find those answers.

So just embracing the uncertainty, the fear, the anxiety, and just moving forward one step at a time and it comes along. And, of course, going in to it, I knew mistakes would be made. I was new at this, and I knew that there were things that were going to come up that were unanticipated. So having that mindset going into it when mistakes were made or something happened that I didn’t account for, it didn’t cause me too much anxiety or heartache. It was like, I was just, this is part of the fun of the journey of being able to just problem solve those problems as they come up while we’re really helping a lot of people in the Katy Houston area.
[ALISON]
I’m really glad you brought that up because I think that is such a common thing for everybody who goes through this process, or even just thinks about starting a private practices. That fear, that uncertainty, especially when you’re going to hire people, you know they’re going to be depending on me to pay their bills and that feels scary and like you said, you just took the mindset of I’m just going to do it anyway and things are going to go wrong, but I’m going to figure it out and just keep moving forward.
[JASON]
Exactly.
[ALISON]
I think, yes, that’s awesome. I think that’s the attitude you have to have because otherwise you would never do it.
[JASON]
Yes, exactly.
[ALISON]
So what’s been the most surprising thing for you as a group practice owner, something maybe you didn’t expect when you started out?
[JASON]
Oh man. I think that the main surprising thing was just how fast it took off, really. So initially it was a five-year plan because in my mind, I was thinking there’s a lot to learn. I’m new at this. How long is, I didn’t anticipate the market where, how long it would take to build referrals or get my reputation in the community. So I think the thing that surprised me the most was just how fast that started to come. I think it’s part timing because the market right now, mental health is so needed and there’s more demand than there is therapists to provide that.

So I think that’s the thing that surprised me the most, just how quickly it came. I think that that’s probably not an atypical experience. I think we will lean into that uncertainty and lean into that fear and just start taking those steps. I think people will be surprised at how it just starts to come together. Yes, I think that really, that’s the one thing that probably surprised me the most.
[ALISON]
I think just from working with you, obviously doing consulting, like you had mentioned you were the person who, once you figured out what you were supposed to do, you just got it done. You never wasted any time. I was amazed at how much you got done in between the times that we talked, because that’s a very fast, gross trajectory that you were on there. I was always very impressed that you had done so much in a short amount of time.
[JASON]
It took a lot of work. I had that mindset because in residential treatment, you work 24/7 and you just work, work, work, work, work. So I’m like, I can just apply that same work ethic to this. I had a strong benefit because I think because of how much time, effort, dedication that I put into it had that growth. It had a downside though, because working that much also creates some burnout. Burnout is a lot different when you are owning the practice and it’s your business versus when you’re an employee working for somebody else. The dynamics are much different. I didn’t anticipate that. So, yes, the pros of it really built it pretty quickly but burnout really happened.
[THERAPY NOTES]
Is managing your practice stressing you out? Try Therapy Notes. It makes notes, billing, scheduling, and tele-health a whole lot easier. Check it out and you will quickly see why it’s the highest rated EHR on Trustpilot with over a thousand verified customer views and an average customer rating of 4.9 out of five stars. You’ll notice the difference from the first day you sign up for a trial. They offer live phone support seven days a week so when you have questions, you can quickly reach out to someone who can help. You are never wasting your time looking for answers.

If you’re coming from another EHR, they make the transition really easy. Therapy Notes will import your clients’ demographic data free of charge during your trial so you can get going right away. Use the promo code [JOE] to get three months to try out Therapy Notes, totally free, no strings attached, including their very reliable tele-health platform. Make 2022 best year yet with Therapy Notes.
[ALISON]
So can you talk a little bit more about that? What was that burnout for you and what did you do about it?
[JASON]
In residential treatment burnout is just part of the process. So I know that I’m going to get burned out. You just have to work through that. It doesn’t stop. So you just work through that and continue to go. It’s not fun, but you just experience that and go through that. With the group practice there’s a, depression is a real thing. I think burnout in group practice, the different dynamics of being responsible for people’s income, those type of things. If I don’t, if I wasn’t managing self-care very well, I was just working and really building, I was excited about it. So it was a lot of fun while I was doing it, but it taught me and it really was a struggle there for a little bit.

Motivation decreased a little bit creativity, those things that I really enjoy, the vision planning and all those things. So I learned, sometimes I learned the hard way and that tends to be my learning style at times. But I’ve really valued the, and it sounds cliché, because we say that all the time, self-care is so important. And I’m telling my clients how important self-care is yet I’m not doing it. So I think it’s important to understand the dynamics and a group practice, being a group practice owner and burn out are a lot different and the dynamics of just being an employee, working hard and getting burned out.
[ALISON]
I’m really glad that you made that distinction. I think the other thing too, that I know we’ve talked about during the process of consulting was you got to a point where you realized you could work a lot less and then you sort of didn’t know what to do with yourself.
[JASON]
Yes. That was such a weird experience. There’s a lot of paradigm shifts that I think that I’ve gone through I think it’s fairly common for people who move from agency work to group practice work. There’s a lot of paradigm shifts you have to go through and where in residential, I was so busy all the time and productive that once I started to have a little bit more free time, I started delegating things, according to your feedback. I got an admin assistant who took the phone calls, and then I started to have a little bit more free time. It was uncomfortable. Anxiety provoking a little bit but that’s where that self-care comes in too, is being able to take advantage of those times where you do have some free time, enjoy it, do some morning routine exercise, reading through some things that you wouldn’t normally do before and just embrace that free time because it’s not going to last. It’ll get busy again and that cycle will go up and down.
[ALISON]
Yep. I think that took me a long time too, to get used to that, because you’re like, oh, I have a free hour. Wait, do I really have a free hour? Am I supposed to be doing so something? Did I forget about something?
[JASON]
What should I be doing next? There has to be something I should be doing. What am I missing? What do I do during this hour? But it’s still a process for me. I think I’m getting better at that, but that’s part of the joy of group practice. That’s part of why I wanted to do that, is to be able to a group practice where I didn’t have to work as much as I was in residential treatment. So it’s interesting. That’s the idea.
[ALISON]
Definitely something you get used to.
[JASON]
Yes.
[ALISON]
I’m curious, I know you had alluded to making some mistakes, which obviously we all do. So I was curious if you were to give some advice or if the audience could sort of learn from some of your mistakes, what were some of those mistakes that you made?
[JASON]
I think early on, because I think that there was a lot of prior preparation for the podcast and SEO consulting, group practice consulting that some of the, maybe more typical mistakes maybe people would make entering into that. I didn’t, because I was applying that feedback pretty regularly. I think the mistakes I made were more about this was my baby and I wanted to make it successful. I knew I could do that. I know I had the interest and the motivation and desire to do it. So I didn’t delegate soon enough. Then just again, it’s repeating, but it’s the self-care part. That was probably, those two things were the mistakes I made early on. I put off hiring an admin assistant for a while and I think it was good timing with our consulting because you suggested that just the right time, because our call volume again, took this big climb around that time.

Had I continued to take those calls that’s all I would’ve been doing all day long, taking phone calls. And I enjoyed it. I like talking to them, but having someone who can take the phone calls, collect the data, there’s a lot of data collection that I do, so having someone to take the busy work off my plate to allow me to really focus on marketing and the key elements of the website and blogging and articles and the TV interviews, those type of things, I think, I wish I would’ve done that a little bit sooner.
[ALISON]
That’s very common. Again, lots of people make that mistake. They think they can just keep doing all the things. If you could sort of rewind and go back and do again, at what point would you have brought on the assistant?
[JASON]
I think I would’ve brought her on, so I brought her on just recently. So August, I think I had have one and then I hired a different one after her, but I think I would’ve started probably May, June really. When the call volume started to increase I think that’s probably what I would’ve brought, looking back when it would’ve been good to bring on that admin assistant because I think it would’ve helped with that burnout phase too, where I wasn’t taking phone calls plus doing admin work plus website, logging and all that other stuff. I think having an admin assistant who could take all that admin busy work off my plate would’ve been very helpful back then.
[ALISON]
Yes. So how many clinicians did you have at that point?

In May? I had three. Three full time and one part-time.
[ALISON]
Okay. So you probably could have even gotten an assistant when you had clinician, right?
[JASON]
Yes. It’s interesting because part of the reason I did that is because of cost. It’s like, I can do this and save some money but what I found is that it really increases the the number of clients that we get because we have someone dedicated to the phone lines that can answer right away. We always get back to them the same day, unless it’s weekend, that it’s Monday. So my feedback is, sometimes we look at the number and the cost that that will incur, but the benefit of that far outweighs the cost. That’s that concept I didn’t have back then. You helped me with that. So if I could have gone back, I wish I would’ve had that mentality a little bit earlier to be able to do that.
[ALISON]
That’s another huge thing that we talk about with almost everybody, because if you’ve never been a business owner before, it can be hard to wrap your mind around how that works. I could tell when we first talked about it, you were like, you weren’t getting it. I was like, “He’ll figure it out.”
[JASON]
One way or the other, he’ll get it.
[ALISON]
One way or another. So we talked about mistakes, let’s talk about the things that you did well. You have talked about the SEO and the website and that was absolutely the right choice, money well spent. What were some other things that you felt like you did right?
[JASON]
I think the culture, well, that’s one of the things that I really wanted to build a really good, healthy, strong culture with the therapist. So I went into this, one wanting to pay them well, pay them for their value, for what they provide their clients. I wanted to have a culture of honesty and transparency, and we’ve been able to create that. I wanted to create a culture where therapists, I could hire great therapists, which I’m very fortunate. I have really good therapists, especially in this market where it’s hard to hire therapists and let them work independently. So I think that’s one of the things that I’m proud of that we’ve been able to accomplish.

Then another thing I wanted do is I wanted to build a culture where I would, where we could destigmatize mental health. So I had an experience when I was in therapy in the lobby, in the waiting room. I know this is just one experience. This probably doesn’t happen often in therapists waiting rooms, but I’d be sitting in there and other therapists would come in and I’d get the side eye and a slight, and then they go to their office and I’m like, I don’t have leprosy. Come talk to me. Say hi. I get the HIPAA confidentiality part of that too but, so that’s one of the things I wanted our clients to come in. I wanted them to feel warm, welcome, inviting. I wanted them to feel like it’s a home environment.

So our therapists will, we can tell somebody doesn’t want to have conversation, but we will welcome them. Glad you’re here. I’m Jason, one of the therapists here and I’ll walk back to my office. But there’s a lot that like to have conversations. So being able to sit down and just have a conversation with them, make it more normalized, like this is not a stigmatized thing to come into an office for therapy. This is just normal, just like a medical doctor. So we’ve gotten a lot of comments from clients about just how comfortable, warm, welcoming, inviting it feels, how it feels. Feels like a home environment. So those are two things, of course that I’m really happy that we’ve been able to create.

One of our values at Katy Teen & Family Counseling is being devoted, committed to client care and that white glove customer service experience and our therapists are all on board with that. Of course all of us, I think the greatest accomplishment is being able to see teenagers, young adults, couples, families come in really just hopeless and dejected and just at the end of their rope and then leave full of hope, happiness, hope for the future. They have skills and tools they’ve learned, they’re managing their anxiety, depression, whatever it is. That’s what, I mean, ultimately that’s what gives us the biggest thrill as therapists to know that we’ve been able to change maybe their life trajectory in a very positive way. That can have intergenerational impacts. So yes, those are some of the things that excite me.
[ALISON]
That’s amazing. It sounds like you put a lot of thought into the culture and the values of the practice, and then you, not only did you identify those, but you’ve actually figured out how to live them out or how they actually happen on a day to day basis, which I think is something that not a lot of practice owners do, like being really intentional about all of that. So I’m super impressed that you did all of that.
[JASON]
Thank you. That was important in developing this practice. I’m happy that the therapists are really on board with that and they really like it. It’s a little bit different for them, what they’ve been used to, but I think they’re excited about that approach as well. They really get interested and happy and they enjoy those relationships that they get to build and develop with clients who are parents who are sitting in the lobby. And it’s really fun for teenagers too because they come in and they’re like, oh, what is this therapy stuff? I don’t know. Then when you’re out there just talking with them and treating them like just a normal human being and just showing interest in them, then it really shifts it for them too like, oh, this isn’t so bad. These people are friendly and it’s just a nice place to come through.
[ALISON]
That’s awesome. Any other advice that you would give to people who are maybe thinking about starting a group practice or have a group practice and maybe they want to continue building it?
[JASON]
Yes, I think, and it may be repetitive, but there’s so much, there are so many resources out there to learn from. So the private practice podcasts, SEO consulting, group practice consulting with your team, books and articles. There’s so many resources out there to be able to draw from. Then fear and anxiety and uncertainty can delay us but I think it’s like faith, taking that step into the dark and then the light comes. We’re not sure what’s going to happen, but taking that step. I’m glad that we didn’t do the five year plan. I’m glad we did the 10 month plan really because it wasn’t necessary. I think the five year plan was partly based on uncertainties, a little bit of fear and anxiety, because I’d never done this before. But just diving into it, doing it, you’ll figure it out along the way.

Then you also have all these resources to be able to help give you answers along the way too. So I would also suggest spending the money. It’s not cheap to have SEO consulting. It’s not cheap to have group practice consulting, but I can tell you that it’s some of the best money I’ve spent in building the group practice because of the value that it provided..

I remember telling my wife how much I was going to spend for SEO consulting. She’s like, “You’re spending how much? Do you really need to do that?” I’m like, “Honey, this is, the website is our marketing. We don’t take insurance so it’s not built in marketing that way.” So I would just encourage people to really take advantage of the resources, lean into the uncertainty and the fear and the anxiety and just take that next step. For smart people, we’ll figure it out along the way. There’s a ton resources to help as well. Then if anything’s taken away from this is delegate, delegate, delegate earlier. I think that’s, I wish I would’ve done that sooner. I think that would’ve really helped with the stress load and helped me to really hone in on things that are very critical to the building of the practice and not the data collection and phone calls, which are important, but other people can do those type of works. That does cost money too but again, it’s provided such value to the practice and it’s helps to grow that it’s money well spent.
[ALISON]
Very good advice. I like all of that. So can you tell us how we can check out your practice website or folks maybe want to get ahold of you or have a question, how can they contact you?
[JASON]
Our practice name is Katy Teen, like teenager, Katie Teen & Family Counseling. Our website is www.katyteenandfamilycounseling.com all spelled out. If they have questions they can reach us through that website. My email address is [email protected]. I’d love to, and that’s one of the things that we value too. We’re very abundant mentality people. So there’s a lot of networking with other group practices in the area. We share flyers and feedback and who made you that logo and give me that resource. And other practices that also serve teenagers. So it’s just, I think we’re a community where we can provide support for each other and there is more out there that need help and there’s not enough therapists to provide that help. So it’s not like it’s a competitive competition thing. I’d be happy to answer any questions anybody has.
[ALISON]
Awesome. I love that. Thank you so much, Jason, for taking the time to talk with us today. It’s been so great getting to know you through business consulting, and it’s been amazing to see what you’ve grown in such a short amount of time. I just really am thankful that you were willing to share your story today.
[JASON]
Thank you. You’ve been a key element in that growth, so I super appreciate, and I’m very grateful for the support you and your team have given me and this journey. And Jessica and SEO Consulting, it’s just been, it’s nice to have all that support where you have that those resources available. So thank you.
[ALISON]
Well, I wanted to say thank you to Therapy Notes for being a sponsor of this podcast. We know your EHR is awesome. We are happy to tell other people about it. So if you want to get Therapy Notes for free for three months, use promo code [JOE] J-O-E. No strings attached. You can check it out and see if you’re ready to make the switch.
[ALISON]
Thank you so much for listening today. It’s always such a pleasure interviewing folks who have had success in their group practice and we can all learn something from them. To reiterate what I was talking about in the beginning of the podcast, if you thinking about starting your own group practice, and you really want somebody to walk you through step by step and you want resources and support and a community of other people going through the same thing, check out our Group Practice Launch program through Practice of the Practice. Whitney Owens and I run it.

If you want to learn more, come to our webinar about how to make bank in group practice that is happening March 2nd, at 1:00 PM Eastern time. You can register for free through that URL, practiceofthepractice.com/bank B-A-N-K. Our Group Practice Launch cohort, the first one of 2022 is launching on March 7th. So definitely keep a look in your email for that if that’s something that you’re ready to do. I will talk to you all next time.

If you love this podcast, will you please rate and review on iTunes or your favorite podcast player?

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regards to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, Practice of the Practice, or the guests are providing legal, mental health, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.